Money Matters Episode 319- Couples and Money: Mastering Financial Conversations with Chris Wong

01:38 - 01:44
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Well, welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that transforms your financial chaos into financial clarity.

01:45 - 01:49
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I'm Christopher Hensley here to guide you through the complexities of money and relationships.

01:49 - 01:54
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Picture this, it's the end of the month and you're sitting down with your partner bills in hand.

01:55 - 01:56
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
The tension is palpable.

01:56 - 02:01
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
How do you start the conversation without spiraling into into conflict.

02:01 - 02:08
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Today, we're lucky to have Chris Wong, a seasoned therapist and expert in navigating these exact conversations.

02:08 - 02:15
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Together, we'll explore not just why these talks are tough, but how we can handle them with confidence and with compassion.

02:15 - 02:24
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Stay with us to the end to discover key strategies for financial harmony that can change not just your bank balance, but your relationship dynamics.

02:24 - 02:31
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
This isn't just about getting through a tough talk, it's about building a foundation of understanding and respect that last.

02:32 - 02:33
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Let's get started.

02:33 - 02:35
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Chris, thank you so much for being on the show.

02:36 - 02:36
Chris Wong
Hey, it's my pleasure.

02:36 - 02:37
Chris Wong
Love to be here.

02:37 - 02:39
Chris Wong
Love to be talking to another Chris, Christopher.

02:40 - 02:41
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Absolutely.

02:41 - 02:41
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Absolutely.

02:41 - 02:43
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Now you have a podcast as well.

02:43 - 02:50
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So before we kind of dive into this, maybe share a little bit about your podcast with listeners so that we can get to know you a little bit better.

02:50 - 02:58
Chris Wong
Yeah, I have a podcast, The Art and Science of Difficult Conversations, and it came out of myself and somebody I met, Lucy, who was my co-host.

02:59 - 03:00
Chris Wong
And we're in a similar space.

03:00 - 03:02
Chris Wong
We're both executive coaches.

03:02 - 03:07
Chris Wong
And we were finding that people really struggle with difficult conversations of all sorts, at work, in personal life.

03:08 - 03:11
Chris Wong
And some of them were asking, how do you have this conversation?

03:11 - 03:21
Chris Wong
And so it really came out of how do we provide these role plays for our clients and for other people who are struggling with, how do I talk with an underperforming employee?

03:21 - 03:24
Chris Wong
How do I get my spouse to do more chores around the house?

03:24 - 03:32
Chris Wong
How do I have these conversations and so we turned it into that and like we it's been a cool experience a cool journey So.

03:32 - 03:33
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it share.

03:33 - 03:51
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it I love it cuz that that was when when I learned about your podcast the format of you had a couple different formats there And one of them was a role play which I have not heard of on a podcast before I think that's very unique And a neat way to get access to this information for sure.

03:51 - 03:54
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Well, Chris, thank you so much for joining us Let's just dive right into it.

03:54 - 03:57
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
This topic, I think, is a good one for all of us.

03:57 - 03:58
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I'm actually on May 18th.

03:58 - 04:00
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
That is my 28 year anniversary.

04:00 - 04:07
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So after 28 years, you know, this is still, you know, we still have conversations about money all the time.

04:07 - 04:08
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
It's it's work, right?

04:08 - 04:13
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Being in a relationship and making sure everybody is on the same page.

04:13 - 04:22
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
How should couples begin discussing their financial goals and concerns and what foundational steps are crucial for a healthy dialogue?

04:23 - 04:26
Chris Wong
Else I'm actually a flip that question in order.

04:26 - 04:43
Chris Wong
I think the foundational elements is you need to have good communication about everything You know, this is one of those topics that we all bring our own hang-ups and how we were raised to think about money And so the foundation is do you even have a venue or a way for both of you to have that honest conversation?

04:44 - 04:48
Chris Wong
Do you have a way that you can share and you can share your opinion without?

04:48 - 04:55
Chris Wong
Feeling like you're being ridiculed or made fun of or pressured to think one way or the other?

04:55 - 04:58
Chris Wong
And can you just even have that insight to share with yourself?

04:59 - 05:01
Chris Wong
Like this is actually what I think about money.

05:01 - 05:09
Chris Wong
This is actually, I think of it as we need to save as much as possible because I grew up in a culture where we saved every last penny and we never spent any money.

05:09 - 05:21
Chris Wong
And so it freaks me out that we have to buy this couch or this bed or spend money on this new water If every time we have to spend money, it freaks me out So part of that is also conversation with ourselves is what are we comfortable with?

05:21 - 05:24
Chris Wong
What do we talk about and raised to think about money?

05:25 - 05:31
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
That's a good way to think about it, you know starting from the broad idea of just having good communication, right?

05:31 - 05:49
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Not just about money, but being able to To talk to each other without feeling, you know blame or are having just a good way to come about that You talked about you know, as it goes to money, examples of hot water heater, that's a good one.

05:49 - 05:54
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
All of these things, there's there's a dollar sign and a price tag attached to to them.

05:54 - 06:03
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So being able to really have the insight with yourself to know that, you know, how have I formed these, these, these ideas when it comes to money.

06:04 - 06:06
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
This can lead to conflict sometimes.

06:07 - 06:09
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So we hope it doesn't.

06:09 - 06:10
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
But sometimes it does.

06:11 - 06:21
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You know, in your experience as therapist, what are the common financial conflicts among couples and what strategies do we need to recommend for resolving them?

06:22 - 06:37
Chris Wong
Yeah, I think it's that one of those examples I gave is just one person grew up really stingy, not stingy, but really just focused on hoarding money, right, and somebody and the other person grew up like really loose with money, really thinking everything.

06:37 - 06:38
Chris Wong
It's okay to buy stuff.

06:38 - 06:39
Chris Wong
If you need something, just buy it.

06:39 - 06:41
Chris Wong
Don't stress about it.

06:42 - 07:08
Chris Wong
You know, my wife and I don't stress too much about money because we have a we had a good a financial advisor, but There are times when that shows up because I grew up in a very more of save your money hoard your money And so I think of like I don't want to spend money on stuff I don't want to you know, buy something if we don't know absolutely need it But my wife grew up and like she also didn't grow up with a lot of money But she her philosophy was if you have the money and you need something just buy it.

07:08 - 07:08
Chris Wong
Right.

07:08 - 07:11
Chris Wong
And so it's the but that stresses me out to think like that.

07:11 - 07:17
Chris Wong
So it's having that conversation ahead of time, like what's what's rational, what's reasonable, what's not reasonable.

07:18 - 07:27
Chris Wong
And I think part of it is sitting down as a as a if you're in a married couple or relationship where you're sharing finances, what are your goals with that money?

07:28 - 07:31
Chris Wong
Do you see it as let's save as much money as possible?

07:31 - 07:31
Chris Wong
Are your goals?

07:32 - 07:36
Chris Wong
Let's live life to the fullest degree and not worry about that.

07:36 - 07:44
Chris Wong
You know, one of those have a very short term one of us a very long term view and neither is wrong or none's better or worse than the other, right?

07:44 - 07:50
Chris Wong
It's just more what are your goals together as a couple and how will you decide what that goal is?

07:51 - 07:54
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So there's two things I picked up when you just shared that with us.

07:54 - 08:00
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
One was the idea that looking at just having that conversation about goals with money.

08:00 - 08:04
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
It sounds simple enough to do, but I don't think a lot of people are doing it.

08:04 - 08:09
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Actually having that conversation with thought, you know, what are we trying to do with this?

08:09 - 08:13
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And the other thing that I picked up on is that you mentioned you had a financial advisor.

08:13 - 08:26
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Here you are a therapist who's trained, you know, to speak with, you know, and to have these conversations, but you're tapping a financial advisor to have those conversations with your spouse.

08:27 - 08:31
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Let's dive a little bit, you know, deeper into that.

08:31 - 08:41
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
When we just talking about financial planning, can you discuss the importance of strategic planning in relationships, and how should couples align their financial strategies with their life goals?

08:42 - 08:49
Chris Wong
I think that's like with anything in life, with business, with work, with personal life, it's just having a goal.

08:49 - 08:58
Chris Wong
And like, maybe it doesn't have to be so stringent as like having a business plan for your marriage, but you got to have a plan of what you want to do someday.

08:58 - 08:58
Chris Wong
You're right.

08:59 - 09:05
Chris Wong
And I recognize the reason I got a financial, we got a financial advisor because how do we combine our finances?

09:05 - 09:07
Chris Wong
And we know we don't know how to do that.

09:07 - 09:09
Chris Wong
And so we're like, what's the best way to do that?

09:10 - 09:13
Chris Wong
And having a neutral third party, that's why people get therapists.

09:13 - 09:15
Chris Wong
That's why people get coaches.

09:15 - 09:16
Chris Wong
Same thing with financial advisors.

09:16 - 09:19
Chris Wong
Getting somebody who's an expert in that thing.

09:19 - 09:24
Chris Wong
And they're neutral, so they don't have that same emotional connection to your own money and your own stuff.

09:25 - 09:31
Chris Wong
They can logically look at what are your goals and how is the best way to reach your goals step by step.

09:31 - 09:43
Chris Wong
And knowing that it's a marathon, not a sprint, right, especially if you're thinking like, how do we save our money for retirement and, you know, future wealth, but whatever your goals are, it's really what is the goals and then what are the logical steps to get there?

09:45 - 09:46
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love that.

09:46 - 09:47
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love that.

09:47 - 09:52
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So that you're, you know, shared with us while why you have used a financial advisor for this.

09:53 - 09:58
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You mentioned the words combining finances or combining your households into one.

09:58 - 10:00
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So this popped, this popped into my head here.

10:00 - 10:02
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
This is a difficult conversation.

10:02 - 10:08
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
As we're having difficult conversations here that I have with with clients or people that I bring on to my practice.

10:09 - 10:19
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Because of the age group that I'm working with, a lot of times I'm getting people who are, you know, 55 and up who are in a second marriage, right.

10:20 - 10:20
Chris Wong
And.

10:20 - 10:25
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So where some people combine their finances, some people don't.

10:25 - 10:35
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And it's because they've had this, this, they've been burned, usually, by the time they get to me, if I ask them, and they separate their finances and then they get remarried.

10:35 - 10:53
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So we're talking about a second marriage and they've decided to to get married, but they're not 100% about combining the finances because they've often had these stories, these things that have happened in the past, but where that can come in to bite them is that they might operate it siloed, right?

10:53 - 11:04
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
But with the estate planning, if you're in an estate where it's joint titled, what you think's happening with the assets may not happen, like you may have siloed them separately, right?

11:04 - 11:07
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Mentally, for the accounting there.

11:09 - 11:19
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
How would you handle, is there a different way to come at these conversations with different generations, with that different age demographic?

11:20 - 11:26
Chris Wong
Yeah, and I don't know your approach well enough to, like I don't want to necessarily tell you how to do your work, because I'm sure you're good at it.

11:26 - 11:31
Chris Wong
I would say dig into that emotional reason.

11:32 - 11:37
Chris Wong
I think that's because we all make, that's how we make our decisions really is just emotionally from our gut.

11:38 - 11:42
Chris Wong
So really digging into that, what their fear is, what their worry is on both sides.

11:42 - 11:48
Chris Wong
You know, if they're getting remarried and they're worried about something happening, they don't wanna get burned again, reasonable.

11:49 - 11:50
Chris Wong
I dig into that.

11:50 - 11:52
Chris Wong
Like what is your concern about getting burned again?

11:52 - 11:54
Chris Wong
What's your fear of something happening?

11:54 - 12:05
Chris Wong
And then for the if they're if they're marrying somebody who's like dead set on like we have to combine our finances because that to me shows commitment What's going on for them emotionally?

12:05 - 12:08
Chris Wong
What is what's the importance there for them?

12:09 - 12:14
Chris Wong
And I think that's where you need to negotiate is thinking about what are those emotional needs?

12:14 - 12:16
Chris Wong
They're trying to fill or trying to avoid.

12:16 - 12:18
Chris Wong
What are they trying to avoid?

12:18 - 12:22
Chris Wong
What pain are they trying to avoid and And how can you best work together to meet both needs?

12:23 - 12:28
Chris Wong
Like, how can you provide that security and show the commitment, right?

12:28 - 12:31
Chris Wong
It can't be just a positional thing, right?

12:31 - 12:39
Chris Wong
And so an example I use is a husband and wife who a husband does not, wants a fake Christmas tree and the wife wants a real Christmas tree.

12:40 - 12:44
Chris Wong
And the husband's like, but it's too much work.

12:44 - 12:46
Chris Wong
A plastic one is easier to care of and store.

12:46 - 12:47
Chris Wong
You can reuse it.

12:47 - 12:51
Chris Wong
And the wife's like, but this one, it smells like Christmas.

12:51 - 12:57
Chris Wong
This is like the real Christmas spirit, like that tradition of going to a Christmas tree farm and picking out a tree.

12:58 - 12:59
Chris Wong
And like, those are just positions.

12:59 - 13:01
Chris Wong
Those are just like surface level things.

13:02 - 13:06
Chris Wong
But if you dig deeper, the husband doesn't really have a reason and he just doesn't wanna deal with it.

13:06 - 13:09
Chris Wong
But the wife's like, you know what?

13:09 - 13:16
Chris Wong
This reminds me of my dad and he passed away a couple of years ago and he used to always bring us to like, this really means a lot to me because it reminds me, it connects me with my dad.

13:16 - 13:17
Chris Wong
And that's important.

13:18 - 13:33
Chris Wong
And so the husband says, okay, let's get the real Christmas tree because that makes more sense But if you just deal with like the surface level things, you know Logistically like depends on what more is important to you But getting to that emotional core that makes it easier to determine what's your actual need that you're trying to fill.

13:35 - 13:35
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I Love it.

13:35 - 13:42
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
That's a really good answer to that question there You know, I try not to I never pass judgment on clients.

13:42 - 13:49
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
It's whatever they want to do that's fine, but making sure that they understand the ramifications of, of that.

13:49 - 13:57
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And especially when people pass away, if they've got blended families with children and there, there may be expectations there that they just haven't discussed.

13:57 - 14:00
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And so that's one of the reasons we, we have that conversation.

14:01 - 14:03
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Transparency in finances.

14:03 - 14:08
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
How important is transparency about finances in a relationship?

14:08 - 14:12
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
What are the risk and the benefits of maintaining separate versus joint accounts.

14:12 - 14:19
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
More of the, the first part of that is really how important is transparency about finances in a relationship?

14:20 - 14:24
Chris Wong
I mean, I think importance in general, just the same as everything else with communication, right?

14:24 - 14:31
Chris Wong
It's, it's just being transparent about what's going on because otherwise you're just leaving the other person to assume certain things.

14:31 - 14:36
Chris Wong
They're just going to fill in, no matter what the other person is going to fill in their own story of what's happening and why it's happening.

14:37 - 14:44
Chris Wong
You know, Are you hiding your finances because you're trying to store money somewhere to hide something else?

14:46 - 14:53
Chris Wong
Or have you just been buying scratch tickets every day, and so you actually have a gambling problem you're trying to hide?

14:53 - 14:59
Chris Wong
And so your spouse is like, they think you're having a second life, and you have a gambling problem you need help with.

14:59 - 15:00
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Absolutely.

15:00 - 15:03
Chris Wong
That's so important to help get on the same page.

15:04 - 15:06
Chris Wong
And I think every relationship is going to be different.

15:06 - 15:15
Chris Wong
Like I get that some relationships you might be, you might want to be that transparent and maybe your spouse or your partner just isn't there with you in the same level.

15:15 - 15:20
Chris Wong
So like you want to be transparent and they're not necessarily supportive of that or they're not curious.

15:20 - 15:25
Chris Wong
They're just passing judgment too quickly or being reactive to whatever you're sharing.

15:26 - 15:27
Chris Wong
So that kind of shuts it down.

15:27 - 15:29
Chris Wong
So yes, it's important to be transparent.

15:29 - 15:39
Chris Wong
It's also just important for the other partner to be able to be open and listen and think about how, because especially once you're married, it's you two together trying to solve this problem.

15:40 - 15:42
Chris Wong
You're not against each other, it's you trying to solve this problem together.

15:43 - 15:44
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love that.

15:44 - 15:48
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
That's how, after 28 years, we look at ourselves as a team.

15:48 - 15:56
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
We're working together as a team and it's always good to have that in our minds when we're trying to make decisions.

15:57 - 16:27
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So this was the idea of, if you aren't transparent, that the person might actually fill in the gap for the story that they have and it may not be the correct story and there is a danger there and then getting you know getting the you use the idea of a gambling addiction that is a problem right and two people can get past that but if they don't know about it you could see where that could really just drive a wedge.

16:27 - 16:28
Chris Wong
Between.

16:28 - 16:31
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
A relationship so being being.

16:35 - 16:40
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Let's pivot a little bit and talk about cultural influences.

16:40 - 16:44
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
How do cultural backgrounds influence a couple's approach to money management?

16:45 - 16:48
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And what advice do you have for couples from diverse backgrounds?

16:50 - 16:52
Chris Wong
I think it's going to sound like a broken record.

16:53 - 17:02
Chris Wong
The cultural differences are so important because they influence how we look at money, how we spend money, who we're with, Who's in charge of the money?

17:02 - 17:03
Chris Wong
I'm a big proponent.

17:03 - 17:05
Chris Wong
I keep talking about being transparent, communicating.

17:06 - 17:12
Chris Wong
And what if you come from a culture where only one person has power over the finances and that's how they view it?

17:12 - 17:14
Chris Wong
That's how it should be.

17:16 - 17:27
Chris Wong
I don't like the idea of, it seems in pop culture, now there's this idea of you should essentially have a checklist of things you talk about on a first date with people to determine if it's a good fit or not.

17:28 - 17:37
Chris Wong
I'm not saying you gotta talk about this on the first date, But if it gets serious when it starts getting serious, you should be talking about this What is your expectation of money?

17:37 - 17:40
Chris Wong
Is it we share it to 50 50?

17:40 - 17:53
Chris Wong
Is that you believe one person should have control of all the finances and I just get like and the other person just gets A uh an allowance quote unquote or something Or is it like we're we're jointly working together through all of this stuff.

17:53 - 17:58
Chris Wong
We're we're putting all the money into a joint account I've seen a lot of different ways.

17:58 - 18:03
Chris Wong
I've seen marriages where people have joint accounts forever and they never have a joint accounts.

18:03 - 18:06
Chris Wong
They have a split accounts and it works out well.

18:06 - 18:10
Chris Wong
They figure out how to manage all the bills and the mortgage and all this stuff just fine.

18:11 - 18:14
Chris Wong
And some people have a joint and that works too for them.

18:15 - 18:23
Chris Wong
It just depends on your personality and your culture but it comes down to, are you willing to talk about it and kind of come to figure out how do we collaborate and figure this out together?

18:23 - 18:23
Chris Wong
Answer.

18:23 - 18:25
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love that answer.

18:25 - 18:26
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
That's a great answer.

18:26 - 18:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
It may not be the first date but and money's pretty important.

18:29 - 18:36
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So, you know, if you get that answer that you gave earlier, if somebody will, somebody gets an allowance, that's that might be a deal breaker for.

18:36 - 18:37
Chris Wong
Some.

18:37 - 18:37
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
People, right?

18:37 - 18:43
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And to get that the bubble up in the first couple of dates or conversations, they're not a bad thing.

18:43 - 18:45
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So, I love what you're saying there.

18:45 - 18:47
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
That makes a lot of sense.

18:48 - 18:51
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
When it comes to challenges for modern couples.

18:51 - 18:58
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
How have financial challenges for couples evolved with modern economic conditions such as gig economy or digital currencies?

18:59 - 19:00
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Any thoughts on that?

19:02 - 19:06
Chris Wong
Um, I don't know if I have any thoughts on like the like digital currencies, because I just don't know enough about.

19:06 - 19:07
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
That.

19:07 - 19:08
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I mean, me neither.

19:09 - 19:14
Chris Wong
I assume it's for me, maybe because I'm just older, I assume it's very risky, but maybe it's super safe.

19:14 - 19:15
Chris Wong
I don't know.

19:16 - 19:25
Chris Wong
I will say this, the gig economy is very similar to anybody that themselves, it's just more unstable revenue streams.

19:25 - 19:27
Chris Wong
It's going to be ups and downs.

19:28 - 19:29
Chris Wong
You might hit huge months.

19:29 - 19:31
Chris Wong
You might hit really low months.

19:32 - 19:34
Chris Wong
And so you have to think about it together.

19:34 - 19:35
Chris Wong
How are you going to manage through that?

19:36 - 19:37
Chris Wong
And what's realistic?

19:37 - 19:45
Chris Wong
I think we all understand that inflation is really happening, no matter what the larger indicators are saying.

19:46 - 19:47
Chris Wong
Prices are going up for lots of different things.

19:48 - 19:49
Chris Wong
Rent is going up.

19:49 - 19:52
Chris Wong
It's getting expensive to just live daily life.

19:52 - 20:00
Chris Wong
And so I think that has to be a real question is what's realistic for us in terms of where we're going to live and the lifestyle we want to do.

20:01 - 20:04
Chris Wong
And gig economy I think is great for people that love flexibility.

20:05 - 20:07
Chris Wong
I think they got to be honest with themselves and with each other too.

20:08 - 20:19
Chris Wong
You know that means it's not going to be a stable income which means you have to be even more thoughtful about saving and thoughtful about where you spend your money and how you spend your money.

20:20 - 20:22
Chris Wong
You know, do we wish, do we all wish it was different?

20:22 - 20:23
Chris Wong
Yeah, we all wish it was different.

20:24 - 20:27
Chris Wong
And there's nothing, you know, one person by themselves is not gonna solve it.

20:27 - 20:31
Chris Wong
So we need to figure out like how we're gonna live within this situation.

20:31 - 20:41
Chris Wong
And then we can work on public advocacy and kind of societal issues as a group, but individually, we gotta work, figure out how we're gonna live in this system that we're in right now.

20:42 - 20:42
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love that.

20:42 - 20:50
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Yeah, we probably have personal opinions as far as the wage of a gig worker and how that could be changed.

20:50 - 20:54
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
But you're saying what we're left to deal with is the reality of here's how it is.

20:54 - 20:54
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Right.

20:54 - 20:57
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And so we've got this this lumpy budgeting.

20:57 - 21:01
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
It's almost like a self-employed where you might have a good month.

21:01 - 21:03
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You might have a down month and it's peaks and valleys.

21:03 - 21:08
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And so being really realistic as a couple together, I think that's great.

21:08 - 21:09
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Great advice there.

21:10 - 21:17
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Are there any specific tools or resources that you recommend couples trying to manage their finances better?

21:18 - 21:23
Chris Wong
Yeah, I love um there's a couple of Instagram influencers that I see every now and then.

21:23 - 21:37
Chris Wong
I don't know if you need to go this extreme but they are couples and they have like this period where they meet like every Sunday night and go over their finances and like their their emotional health and all their marriage and things like that.

21:37 - 21:38
Chris Wong
Um that seems like a lot.

21:38 - 21:40
Chris Wong
They say they spend like an hour and a half doing this every Sunday night.

21:41 - 21:41
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Yes.

21:41 - 21:42
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Yeah.

21:42 - 21:42
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I don't.

21:42 - 21:42
Chris Wong
Know.

21:42 - 21:43
Chris Wong
I have two kids.

21:43 - 21:49
Chris Wong
So I don't know how much we're gonna spend time doing that, but it is worth doing like regular checkups on.

21:49 - 21:50
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Your right.

21:50 - 21:50
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Right.

21:50 - 21:50
Chris Wong
Right.

21:51 - 21:54
Chris Wong
Like, check like, are we where we're expected to be?

21:54 - 21:54
Chris Wong
Let's check.

21:55 - 21:56
Chris Wong
Do we need to do something different?

21:56 - 21:58
Chris Wong
Do we need to stop going out as much?

21:58 - 21:59
Chris Wong
Can we go out more?

22:00 - 22:03
Chris Wong
We had like a really good period of savings.

22:03 - 22:06
Chris Wong
And, you know, we have a travel fund or entertainment fund.

22:07 - 22:08
Chris Wong
We built that up a little bit.

22:08 - 22:30
Chris Wong
So let's let's start living a little let's start like going to a let's plan a education, you know, but having that regular review helps and as a person, like I'm self-employed and I dread doing the bookkeeping because I hate looking at the money, but like I know I forced myself to do it because I know I have to make sure like that nothing is out of the ordinary.

22:30 - 22:36
Chris Wong
But I just dread looking at it because I don't want to look at potential bad news of like, oh, I lost this much money.

22:36 - 22:37
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
But I.

22:37 - 22:41
Chris Wong
Don't have to do it because it's just important to the work, but I get it.

22:41 - 22:47
Chris Wong
Like if, if both, uh, if both people in a, in a relationship don't want to do it, then that makes it even worse.

22:47 - 22:48
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
It's hard.

22:48 - 22:50
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
That's a harder thing for sure.

22:50 - 22:51
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So I love that.

22:51 - 23:00
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Um, you know, the idea of the weekly meetings and you know, you get, you, you gave an example, you know, maybe an extreme where they're meeting every week and it's almost like a CEO.

23:01 - 23:01
Chris Wong
Marriage.

23:01 - 23:04
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I think that's awesome, but could I do that?

23:04 - 23:05
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I don't know.

23:05 - 23:12
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Uh, But you also said, well, you know, realistically, just the check-ins to do a temperature check, where are we at on this?

23:12 - 23:19
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You gave the examples of, you know, having your entertainment fund set aside so that now you don't feel guilty, right?

23:19 - 23:20
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Because you've actually got some.

23:20 - 23:21
Chris Wong
Money in there.

23:21 - 23:24
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
It's like, hey, we can go to the movies, we can go out to eat that.

23:24 - 23:30
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So I think those are all really, really good examples and ideas for couples.

23:31 - 23:34
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
We've got just about five minutes before the show is over.

23:34 - 23:42
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
How does the psychological aspect of money affect relationships and what can couples do to address any negative impacts?

23:44 - 24:00
Chris Wong
Yeah, I think it goes I think it goes back to your expectations of what you think the other person will do or won't do you know, I Keep thinking like the the person that's really more guarding of their money because that's just my perspective I don't want to call anyone else out.

24:00 - 24:16
Chris Wong
So I'll use my perspective You know, if you have that and your spouse is like spending lots of money or just even like willing to buy clothes for herself or himself You're gonna look at it and you're gonna start getting resentful, especially if you're not talking about it You're gonna be like why aren't they saving money?

24:16 - 24:20
Chris Wong
We got like a kid on the way like don't they notice what we're doing here?

24:21 - 24:31
Chris Wong
And so if we don't have those conversations It just breeds resentment and then we start getting bitter and then we start thinking about it or we hold it in ourselves we try not to be resentful.

24:31 - 24:32
Chris Wong
So it just creates anxiety.

24:32 - 24:33
Chris Wong
Like, what am I going to do?

24:33 - 24:34
Chris Wong
Do I have to work harder?

24:34 - 24:35
Chris Wong
Do I have to get a second job?

24:36 - 24:38
Chris Wong
Is it on me to figure this out?

24:39 - 24:42
Chris Wong
So it just makes it worse and worse and it spirals.

24:42 - 24:52
Chris Wong
And then, you know, that honest communication, there's nothing that's going to beat that, you know, about finances, about, you know, intimacy, about ***, about kids.

24:53 - 25:03
Chris Wong
Like, nothing will beat an open and honest conversation where you're both willing to that conversation and both able to listen and work together to come to a resolution.

25:05 - 25:05
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

25:05 - 25:05
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

25:05 - 25:08
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Chris, we could have talked for the rest of the day here.

25:08 - 25:12
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
We're just about three minutes away from the end of the show.

25:12 - 25:19
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So now tell me a little bit, because I'm going to ask where listeners who want to find out more about you, where they can find out more about you.

25:19 - 25:27
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
But I want you to talk a little bit about what you do professionally, which I think deals more with leadership and from a corporate coaching aspect.

25:27 - 25:30
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
But can you tell us a little bit more about that so that.

25:30 - 25:31
Chris Wong
We can get to.

25:31 - 25:32
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Know, know that about you?

25:33 - 25:34
Chris Wong
Yeah, sure.

25:34 - 25:37
Chris Wong
So I do, I, I still do, um, therapy on the side.

25:38 - 25:41
Chris Wong
Um, but it only affects people that live in Massachusetts.

25:41 - 25:43
Chris Wong
So if you have listeners elsewhere, that doesn't matter.

25:43 - 25:47
Chris Wong
Um, but what I do, my main job is I'm an executive coach and consultant.

25:47 - 25:57
Chris Wong
So I work with nonprofit executive directors, really fixing, helping them to fix dysfunctional cultures, creating high-performing organizations so they can execute their strategic plan.

25:58 - 25:59
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

25:59 - 25:59
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

25:59 - 26:08
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So the stuff that we talk about on a couple level, think about it at a group and a dysfunctional office or a business model or workspace.

26:08 - 26:09
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
We need this everywhere.

26:09 - 26:24
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
The last thing you just said about good, honest communication, Um, you know, just having those conversations, super, super important there, um, Chris and for people who do want to find out more, where can they go to find out about you?

26:24 - 26:24
Chris Wong
Yeah.

26:24 - 26:30
Chris Wong
So they can find, they can find my website, uh, myleadershippotential.com, uh, on social media.

26:30 - 26:32
Chris Wong
I'm most active on LinkedIn.

26:32 - 26:35
Chris Wong
So on LinkedIn, I'm Chris Wong, LMHC.

26:35 - 26:38
Chris Wong
That's where you can find me and get into the conversation with me.

26:38 - 26:42
Chris Wong
You can always email me, chrisatmyleadershippotential.com.

26:43 - 26:50
Chris Wong
And as we mentioned at the beginning, I have my own podcast with the co-host, Lucy, the art and science of difficult conversations.

26:50 - 26:53
Chris Wong
You can catch that anywhere you get your podcasts.

26:53 - 26:55
Chris Wong
And we're about to be finishing our first season.

26:55 - 26:57
Chris Wong
So we're rolling into our second season.

26:58 - 27:02
Chris Wong
And yeah, I think people, you know, for the people that have found it, they seem to enjoy it.

27:02 - 27:05
Chris Wong
And so we're gonna keep building out and keep making it better.

27:05 - 27:06
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

27:06 - 27:07
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Congrats on that.

27:07 - 27:08
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
That's a good first season there.

27:08 - 27:09
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You've got some traction going.

27:10 - 27:12
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Chris, thank you so much for being on the show.

27:12 - 27:14
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Have a good rest of the day there.

27:14 - 27:15
Chris Wong
Yeah, this is great.

27:15 - 27:16
Chris Wong
Thanks for having me on.

27:16 - 27:16
Chris Wong
Love talking about it.