Money Matters Episode 318- Securing Your Legacy: Estate Planning with Adam Zuckerman

Adam Zuckerman: Money Matters Podcast Interview

May 8, 2024 . 11:53 AM . ID: 378810381

Transcript

00:00 - 00:03
[speaker unknown]
This conference will now be recorded.

00:04 - 00:13
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Welcome to today's episode of Money Matters podcast, where we dive deep into the waters of finance and come up with pearls of wisdom that keep your pockets full and your mind even fuller.

00:14 - 00:20
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I'm Chris Hensley, and today we're unlocking the secrets of one of life's most daunting tasks, estate planning.

00:21 - 00:27
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Joining us is Adam Zuckerman, a visionary who's transforming how we think about securing our legacies.

00:27 - 00:38
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Adam isn't just an expert, he's a seasoned attorney and the innovative founder of Buried in Work, a platform that's revolutionizing estate planning and end-of-life tasks.

00:38 - 00:42
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Have you ever wondered what happens if you don't plan your estate properly?

00:42 - 00:48
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Or why even at a young age, it's crucial to start thinking about your legacy?

00:48 - 00:52
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Adam's here to guide us through these murky waters with clarity and insight.

00:52 - 01:01
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And stay tuned till the very end because Adam will reveal the one common mistake that could jeopardize your future intentions and how to avoid it.

01:01 - 01:07
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You won't want to miss this essential advice that could save you and your loved ones from future headaches.

01:08 - 01:10
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Adam, thank you so much for joining us today.

01:10 - 01:11
Adam Zuckerman
Pleasure to be here.

01:12 - 01:14
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Well, so that's a big build up.

01:16 - 01:22
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So I do want to, you know, when you reached out to me, this is one of my passions.

01:22 - 01:25
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I'm a CES certified estate and trust specialist.

01:25 - 01:38
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And so it is an area of my practice that I've found, you know, being 20 years in the business, as people get closer to post, you know, retirement or post retirement, this becomes even more important to them.

01:38 - 01:43
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And so this is, this is, you know, estate planning is a topic that's, that's true to our heart here.

01:44 - 01:54
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Let's just dive in and start with, you know, can you describe what led to buried in work and how your father's estate influenced your approach to state planning?

01:54 - 01:58
Adam Zuckerman
Yeah, it's an innovative and strange story in some ways.

01:58 - 02:06
Adam Zuckerman
My background has taken me from big companies that are Fortune 500s from Anheuser-Busch and Discovery, finance hedge funds, startups, and whatnot.

02:07 - 02:12
Adam Zuckerman
And when my father was nearing the end of his life, he was at my house, he was actually doing some woodworking in the basement.

02:12 - 02:13
Adam Zuckerman
He said he was tired.

02:13 - 02:19
Adam Zuckerman
And the reality is when he says that, there's a bit of a red flag because he had leukemia for quite some time, six and a half years.

02:19 - 02:20
Adam Zuckerman
Went to the hospital.

02:21 - 02:22
Adam Zuckerman
That was Tuesday.

02:22 - 02:25
Adam Zuckerman
He was checked in on a Thursday and 12 days later he passed.

02:26 - 02:29
Adam Zuckerman
So it's a bit of a shock for the family of how quickly everything happened.

02:30 - 02:36
Adam Zuckerman
But yet in a strange way, we knew for quite some time that this eventuality could happen because he was diagnosed with leukemia.

02:37 - 02:38
Adam Zuckerman
He thought he was organized.

02:39 - 02:43
Adam Zuckerman
We thought he was organized, we being myself, the family, my sisters, my mom is still around.

02:44 - 02:50
Adam Zuckerman
And when I delved into what was left in the mess that he left, unfortunately, there was lot to learn.

02:51 - 02:55
Adam Zuckerman
I took very, very diligent notes of what I was doing to transition the accounts.

02:55 - 02:59
Adam Zuckerman
And I ended up meeting with his financial planner with my mom's financial planner.

02:59 - 03:09
Adam Zuckerman
And at the end of the conversation, the tidbit that was instilled upon me was this is the most comprehensive transition I've ever seen in my life, you have to give this to other people.

03:10 - 03:12
Adam Zuckerman
So we tested the water, we spoke to a few other people.

03:12 - 03:26
Adam Zuckerman
And next thing we knew, buried in work was born to try and sell it save people the time and the hassle that far too many Americans have to go through, the average estate in the country takes 570 hours of time to administer.

03:26 - 03:30
Adam Zuckerman
And I don't know about you, but I don't typically have 570 hours laying around.

03:31 - 03:38
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Wow, that's huge because you shared with us a couple of things there, how fast this stuff can happen.

03:40 - 03:44
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Would you say 12 days from the time that we got warning flags?

03:45 - 03:51
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And then the perception that he was organized, he thought he was financially organized.

03:52 - 03:54
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You guys thought he was financially organized.

03:54 - 04:03
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And it turns out this was one of the most comprehensive transitions that they had seen when you when you dug deeper into it.

04:03 - 04:08
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You shared with us the 570 hours that sometimes it can take to settle all this stuff.

04:08 - 04:24
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And you know, I think a lot of times people just see it as these these legal Documents and there's so much more so much more stuff that to be done for sure Let's talk about is state planning in general Why is the state planning a critical issue for everyone?

04:24 - 04:31
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Not just the wealthy and what are the potential consequences of neglecting this aspect of your financial health?

04:31 - 04:42
Adam Zuckerman
That's a great question So the reality is that even if you have no assets you still have an estate and there's the old saying the United States are on world there's nothing certain except for death and taxes and the reality is is that's true.

04:43 - 04:50
Adam Zuckerman
We have a population in the country because of the baby boomers where 10,000 Americans are turning 65 every single day.

04:50 - 04:54
Adam Zuckerman
That means that the number of people over 65 by the end of the decade is going to double.

04:55 - 05:16
Adam Zuckerman
We're in a situation where women that are married in the United States on average outlive their male husbands by an average of 5.8 years and that means if you look at traditional family values that there's an entire generation of women and obviously this is not everybody always remember to never speak in absolutes, that are going to be on a very steep learning curve at a time in their life where they may not have the resources.

05:16 - 05:22
Adam Zuckerman
The time to focus on it, and it's also a great time of stress and mourning, so that's not good.

05:22 - 05:34
Adam Zuckerman
And then when you take that on top of things, you look at the sandwich generation, where there's 15% of middle-aged adults, that's between 50 or 40 and 59, that are financially supporting both themselves, their children, and their parents.

05:34 - 05:48
Adam Zuckerman
So we are rapidly shifting towards this time period in the country that is all within a broader scope of the largest transition of wealth in human history, $84 trillion in assets is about to shift over the next 20 years.

05:48 - 06:02
Adam Zuckerman
And we have to ask ourselves the question of, if I have nothing, what happens to my estate when I pass away, what impact is it not to me, but rather to my heirs, to my executors, to my family, to my loved ones, to my friends.

06:03 - 06:07
Adam Zuckerman
And if you do have more assets than zero, the same question has to be asked.

06:08 - 06:15
Adam Zuckerman
And the more money you have, the more assets you have, the more places you've lived, the more people in your life, the more complicated that process is.

06:15 - 06:34
Adam Zuckerman
So we need to look at estate planning, not as a legal document, but rather it's a comprehensive process that will leave your family, your heirs, your loved ones, whoever has to step in, in a position where they can step in and minimize the impact on their lives and maximize the efficiency of the process.

06:35 - 06:36
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

06:36 - 06:36
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

06:36 - 06:43
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
That's a lot of very important information you just shared there, the idea that it's not just about those core legal documents.

06:43 - 06:47
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
It's a process and there's lots of other things that are involved in this.

06:47 - 06:54
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You gave the idea of, you know, just if you want to make sure you're leaving your family members, your loved ones in a good spot.

06:54 - 06:58
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
If there's not, if you don't have a plan, there's one out there for you.

06:58 - 07:00
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You just don't know about it yet.

07:00 - 07:05
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And you'll find out, you mentioned death and taxes, the two things that we, you know, we just can't avoid those.

07:05 - 07:20
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Those are going to be there, but putting yourself in a position that you are, are financially organized, that you're, you're doing this with thought and intention, um, really, really good explanation of, of what people should be thinking about on that.

07:20 - 07:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I want to shift a little bit and talk about some of these things that might fall outside of the legal documents, those end of life task.

07:29 - 07:38
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Um, could you share some of the innovative approaches your platform uses to simplify a state organization and end of life task?

07:38 - 07:39
Adam Zuckerman
Yeah, I'd be happy to.

07:39 - 07:44
Adam Zuckerman
So our approach at Bury in Work is to leave people in the best position possible.

07:45 - 07:50
Adam Zuckerman
And that means you want to provide your family members with instant access to your most critical information when it's needed most.

07:51 - 07:56
Adam Zuckerman
It means that you want to ensure that your loved ones know exactly what to do in times of incapacity or loss.

07:56 - 08:01
Adam Zuckerman
So estate planning isn't about only when you pass away, but it's everything leading up to that point as well.

08:02 - 08:11
Adam Zuckerman
Now you talk about trust as part of the overall package, you talk about wills, and trust can be structured to take effect before death, after death, or even in the case of incapacitation.

08:11 - 08:15
Adam Zuckerman
And lastly, we wanna provide quick access to the information that's necessary.

08:15 - 08:17
Adam Zuckerman
So our website is pretty simple to navigate.

08:17 - 08:19
Adam Zuckerman
We bucket things into three different groups.

08:19 - 08:21
Adam Zuckerman
One is estate preparation organization.

08:22 - 08:28
Adam Zuckerman
You can come and learn what information you need to gather together so your family has that access to the most critical information.

08:29 - 08:31
Adam Zuckerman
And that's family member information that includes your pets.

08:32 - 08:36
Adam Zuckerman
We actually worked with veterinarians to create our pet profiles, were financial.

08:36 - 08:36
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Planners.

08:36 - 08:38
Adam Zuckerman
On the asset side.

08:38 - 08:43
Adam Zuckerman
It's understanding citizen and identification backgrounds, your career and education history.

08:43 - 08:47
Adam Zuckerman
There was a story that I heard yesterday of someone who left a company.

08:47 - 08:51
Adam Zuckerman
He still had benefits from that company and they were in his ex-wife's name.

08:51 - 08:56
Adam Zuckerman
So he passed away and the current wife had to call up the ex-wife and explain what was going on.

08:56 - 09:03
Adam Zuckerman
And fortunately, the ex-wife said, yes, I understand this isn't something that is still supposed to go to me and was nice to figure it out.

09:03 - 09:05
Adam Zuckerman
But there's a lot of hiccups that you can run into.

09:06 - 09:10
Adam Zuckerman
So it's career education, it's residential history that helps you find unclaimed property.

09:10 - 09:14
Adam Zuckerman
We have all of the databases available in the country for you to search for free.

09:14 - 09:21
Adam Zuckerman
It's understanding your email and online accounts and your passwords because unlocking that mystery is extremely important to get access to accounts.

09:22 - 09:31
Adam Zuckerman
It's having an understanding of where your financial assets are, your financial liabilities, your business interests, if you have those, your insurance information, your tax returns.

09:32 - 09:36
Adam Zuckerman
A lot of people don't realize you actually have to file a tax return after somebody passes away.

09:36 - 09:41
Adam Zuckerman
And it's also included in your health and medical information and everything else that goes in between that.

09:42 - 09:46
Adam Zuckerman
Our goal is do it yourself first, come to the site, we're gonna give you the resources.

09:47 - 09:52
Adam Zuckerman
But understanding what you need to find is very complicated if you've never done it before.

09:53 - 09:55
Adam Zuckerman
And trust me, you don't wanna learn on the job.

09:55 - 09:57
Adam Zuckerman
The reason why, it's pretty simple.

09:57 - 10:03
Adam Zuckerman
If I ask you, Christopher, to list out all of your bank accounts, you can probably do so in a matter of hours, right?

10:03 - 10:08
Adam Zuckerman
You can go up, get your account statements, you can check your beneficiaries, you can check your account numbers.

10:09 - 10:14
Adam Zuckerman
But if I ask your wife to figure out all of your accounts that you have, what does she have to do?

10:14 - 10:23
Adam Zuckerman
She has to check your mail, she has to go to your computer, she has to contact the banks, you have to navigate the structure of, we can't talk to you yet because Christopher hasn't given you permission yet.

10:23 - 10:27
Adam Zuckerman
So by taking the time to get all this information early, it makes it easier.

10:28 - 10:32
Adam Zuckerman
So if you don't want the do-it-yourself approach, we have products like the estate preparation package.

10:32 - 10:48
Adam Zuckerman
It's been described as the most comprehensive estate organization system available, where if you take the time to fill it out, your family will literally have everything they need to step in to make sure that your wishes are carried out and it minimizes the stress and process.

10:49 - 10:52
Adam Zuckerman
So that's some of the innovative things, but we can get into details if you want.

10:52 - 10:54
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Yeah, no, I love it.

10:54 - 10:55
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

10:55 - 10:56
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
A lot of really good things that you mentioned.

10:56 - 11:04
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You started with talking about putting people in the best position for when this happens, that they have access to their information.

11:05 - 11:16
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You mentioned, you know, digital passwords, and you know, if you ask me what's changed in this space in the last 10 or 15 years or so, this wasn't a thing, right?

11:16 - 11:25
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You know, we didn't have to worry about social media passwords or the ability for people to get on like getting locked out of your spouse's account.

11:25 - 11:33
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And then just the idea of even being able to speak on that if it's an individual style account, and you haven't done what you needed to do.

11:34 - 11:39
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So making it easy, the this tool that you're providing for them.

11:39 - 11:44
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You also mentioned that end of the year are the end of life taxes, I guess is a way to put it.

11:44 - 11:51
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
A lot of times people don't realize you get to file that last tax return as a, if you're married filing jointly, that's it, right?

11:52 - 11:54
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
After the person passes, you get one shot at it.

11:55 - 12:07
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So a lot of these things that you just mentioned are really putting people in a position that they're able to get access to that information quickly and with intention and with thought there.

12:07 - 12:09
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Let's keep diving into this topic.

12:10 - 12:18
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
What are the essential components of a comprehensive estate plan and how does buried in work help ensure that those are thoroughly addressed?

12:19 - 12:22
Adam Zuckerman
Okay, so you are unique just like everybody else.

12:23 - 12:24
Adam Zuckerman
And it's one of my favorite statements.

12:25 - 12:29
Adam Zuckerman
There is nobody that can say to you, this is the single thing that everybody needs.

12:30 - 12:31
Adam Zuckerman
So take that way with a grain of salt.

12:31 - 12:36
Adam Zuckerman
If somebody says you need this, this and this without actually speaking to you first, go find somebody else to speak to.

12:36 - 12:37
Adam Zuckerman
Right.

12:37 - 12:44
Adam Zuckerman
The foundational documents in a comprehensive estate plan, in addition to organizing all the information that we've already spoken about.

12:44 - 12:46
Adam Zuckerman
That oftentimes includes a will.

12:47 - 12:48
Adam Zuckerman
So that is binding.

12:48 - 12:53
Adam Zuckerman
It has to be adhering to the local jurisdictions requirements that you reside in.

12:53 - 12:57
Adam Zuckerman
So number of signatures or witnesses, the age of them, are they related to you?

12:58 - 12:59
Adam Zuckerman
Is there a notary, whatnot?

12:59 - 13:00
Adam Zuckerman
It's a holographic not.

13:01 - 13:03
Adam Zuckerman
You can have trusts as well.

13:03 - 13:09
Adam Zuckerman
You can have things that are referred to, such as advanced directives.

13:10 - 13:11
Adam Zuckerman
And advanced directives are kind of interesting.

13:11 - 13:18
Adam Zuckerman
It's an umbrella term for describing your preferences about how you want to live if you can't communicate them yourself.

13:19 - 13:27
Adam Zuckerman
So some places, there are actual legal documents that the state, the jurisdiction says these are our advance directives and other times it's just a collection of documents.

13:27 - 13:30
Adam Zuckerman
And those can include a living will, which is non-binding.

13:30 - 13:36
Adam Zuckerman
It can include your healthcare proxy, your healthcare agent, a do not resuscitate powers of attorney.

13:37 - 13:43
Adam Zuckerman
What's interesting about powers of attorney is that those are documents that allow somebody to act on your behalf.

13:43 - 13:44
Adam Zuckerman
They're not permanent.

13:44 - 13:44
Adam Zuckerman
You can revoke them.

13:44 - 13:46
Adam Zuckerman
You can have multiple people with them.

13:47 - 13:50
Adam Zuckerman
But what happens there is you can have a financial power of attorney.

13:50 - 13:54
Adam Zuckerman
This individual can act in domain over my financial.

13:55 - 13:56
Adam Zuckerman
You can have a medical power of attorney.

13:57 - 13:59
Adam Zuckerman
This person can make medical decisions for me.

13:59 - 14:03
Adam Zuckerman
But what's really confusing about those is a lot of people believe, oh, I have power of attorney.

14:03 - 14:05
Adam Zuckerman
I can do things after somebody passes away.

14:06 - 14:12
Adam Zuckerman
Power of attorney, medical, financial, otherwise immediately ends the second that individual passes away.

14:12 - 14:16
Adam Zuckerman
So it then goes into the probate or estate transfer process.

14:17 - 14:22
Adam Zuckerman
You can have PULSE, which are portable medical orders as well, and a whole host of other things.

14:23 - 14:37
Adam Zuckerman
On top of that, for a truly comprehensive estate plan, you might want to have legacy messages, which are just non-binding messages of what you want to share with other people, or even something like an ethical will that is your ethos of what you care about in your heart of hearts that you want to share with of people.

14:38 - 14:40
Adam Zuckerman
Now there is no one size fit all.

14:41 - 14:44
Adam Zuckerman
Unfortunately, a lot of people in the United States don't even have a will.

14:44 - 14:47
Adam Zuckerman
So two thirds of Americans don't have a will or trust.

14:47 - 14:53
Adam Zuckerman
The good news is, is that is a very easy step and an easy process to go through to put one in place.

14:53 - 14:55
Adam Zuckerman
It just makes things a little bit easier on you.

14:56 - 14:57
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Adam, thank you for that.

14:57 - 15:01
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And you know, one of the things you started with is that you're unique.

15:02 - 15:04
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Everybody has a different situation, right?

15:05 - 15:09
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So I feel like I need to say this on compliance guy's not listening to this and having a hard time.

15:10 - 15:16
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You know, this is for educational purposes, it's not to substitute meeting with an attorney.

15:17 - 15:19
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
However, I do feel very confident Adam is an attorney.

15:19 - 15:25
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And what he's just done is he shared kind of a laundry list of different legal documents that people can use.

15:25 - 15:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And as he mentioned, those things can all be different depending on the person situation.

15:29 - 15:32
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And having something is always better than nothing.

15:32 - 15:35
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
That's a pretty general thing we could say as well.

15:35 - 15:37
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And so that I think that's awesome.

15:37 - 15:46
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
We just shared a whole bunch of different things and how they interact with people in in with their very specific situation.

15:46 - 15:48
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And you heard more than one, right?

15:48 - 15:56
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So the idea that, you know, I got a buddy that did my simple will for me, it's probably not probably need to do a little bit deeper dive into that for sure.

15:56 - 15:59
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So thank you for sharing that with us.

15:59 - 16:11
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Let's let's just pivot a little bit because you mentioned this earlier, you talked about some of those demographics with baby boomers with the baby boomers retiring in a significant wealth transfer underway.

16:12 - 16:16
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
How should individuals and families from here to manage those transitions effectively?

16:16 - 16:18
Adam Zuckerman
Okay, that's a great question.

16:18 - 16:24
Adam Zuckerman
There is $84 trillion in assets as mentioned earlier about to shift over the next 20 years.

16:25 - 16:27
Adam Zuckerman
The most important thing you can do is start having a conversation.

16:28 - 16:39
Adam Zuckerman
It is very difficult for a lot of people to begin approaching their parents, approaching their spouse, approaching their kids about this topic.

16:40 - 16:43
Adam Zuckerman
But if it goes unsaid, it goes undone.

16:43 - 16:44
Adam Zuckerman
And we don't want that to happen.

16:45 - 16:48
Adam Zuckerman
If you need help starting the conversation, come to our website, baryonwork.com for the plug.

16:49 - 16:50
Adam Zuckerman
We even have a quick quiz.

16:51 - 16:52
Adam Zuckerman
It takes two and a half minutes to complete.

16:52 - 16:55
Adam Zuckerman
It'll help you get an understanding of how prepared you actually are.

16:55 - 17:00
Adam Zuckerman
And what we found is that a lot of people are using that tool to then say, hey, I took this quiz.

17:00 - 17:02
Adam Zuckerman
We got a 4 out of 10.

17:02 - 17:05
Adam Zuckerman
Maybe there are a few things that we should actually sit down and discuss.

17:07 - 17:12
Adam Zuckerman
It's important that people in your family know what your plan is.

17:12 - 17:20
Adam Zuckerman
They don't have to have details of it specifically, but they need to know if a plan exists, if they will exist, where it is located, who has the original copy.

17:21 - 17:22
Adam Zuckerman
Is it in your office?

17:22 - 17:23
Adam Zuckerman
Is it in a folder?

17:23 - 17:25
Adam Zuckerman
Or do you keep it in your trunk of your car for some reason?

17:25 - 17:26
Adam Zuckerman
Or is it with an attorney?

17:26 - 17:33
Adam Zuckerman
Because the last thing you want to do is send people on a scavenger hunt when they're grieving It is the worst time for them to do that.

17:35 - 17:39
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I'm taking notes here So that is that is a lot of really good information there.

17:39 - 17:59
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You talked about the 84% 84 trillion dollars of assets that are in in play because of this generation that is Aging and passing on the wealth there And then the idea that people need to know about this that difficult conversation conversation doesn't have to be difficult.

17:59 - 18:01
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Part of it's just getting it started, right?

18:01 - 18:10
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And you shared with us a tool that quiz that you could go to your website, and you could take it and it will get that you kind of prime to have that conversation with your loved ones, right?

18:11 - 18:18
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
The idea that, you know, just telegraphing or letting people know if you put them on there as an executor.

18:18 - 18:22
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I've had situations where the executor actually said, Nope, not going to do.

18:22 - 18:24
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Thanks, but no, thanks.

18:25 - 18:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And yeah, I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I'm not getting in the middle of this.

18:29 - 18:31
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So I've seen situations like that.

18:32 - 18:41
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So having that conversation and just, right, you know, you're not sharing everything, but letting that executor know that this is what, or executive executor, this is what we're thinking.

18:42 - 18:43
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Very, very important.

18:43 - 18:45
Adam Zuckerman
Thing here.

18:45 - 18:46
Adam Zuckerman
That's exactly right, Christopher.

18:46 - 18:53
Adam Zuckerman
And the reality is that you can make a designation, but those designations, whoever is designated, they can decline.

18:53 - 18:59
Adam Zuckerman
So it's better for them to have that opportunity to say no.

18:59 - 19:00
Adam Zuckerman
No, we don't want to make your will.

19:00 - 19:03
Adam Zuckerman
We don't want to make your trust for you, but what we want to do is educate you.

19:03 - 19:08
Adam Zuckerman
So when you engage with a service provider, when you decide to do it yourself, you're in the best position possible.

19:08 - 19:11
Adam Zuckerman
We even have games on the website that help you do that.

19:11 - 19:12
Adam Zuckerman
So we've got two card games.

19:13 - 19:15
Adam Zuckerman
One is called One More Story.

19:15 - 19:19
Adam Zuckerman
So when somebody passes away, you lose all their legacy, you lose all their memories.

19:19 - 19:21
Adam Zuckerman
So these are prompts to help you learn about them.

19:21 - 19:24
Adam Zuckerman
Tell me one more story about the time you were a child.

19:24 - 19:27
Adam Zuckerman
Tell me one more story about when you were growing up and so and so.

19:28 - 19:33
Adam Zuckerman
The other side of the equation is this more difficult conversation to start, and that's called Nothing Left Unstead.

19:33 - 19:40
Adam Zuckerman
So it takes our estate preparation package and then it turns it into quick, digestible, phrase-based questions.

19:40 - 19:41
Adam Zuckerman
Do you have a will?

19:41 - 19:42
Adam Zuckerman
Do you have a trust?

19:42 - 19:43
Adam Zuckerman
Do you have a guardianship?

19:43 - 19:44
Adam Zuckerman
Where do you want to be buried?

19:44 - 19:45
Adam Zuckerman
Do you have this?

19:45 - 19:46
Adam Zuckerman
Do you have that?

19:46 - 19:47
Adam Zuckerman
And just makes it easier.

19:48 - 19:49
Adam Zuckerman
I can't stress enough.

19:49 - 19:58
Adam Zuckerman
Just start the conversation and you'll be surprised what you learn just by starting, it'll get you much farther than the way you might expect.

19:59 - 20:19
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I know many families, there's a point of anxiety when you start talking about death and it's just a, you know, they have it in their head that it's a difficult thing to do, but my experience has been once you go down that road, there's just like this heavy weight that's lifted and it becomes not only, not difficult, you're kind of, it just starts happening after you start.

20:19 - 20:21
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
But the hard part is starting, right?

20:22 - 20:22
Adam Zuckerman
So.

20:22 - 20:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love that you've given these resources and these tools for people to start that conversation, to get it going there.

20:30 - 20:38
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I also, I want to talk about something that, you've mentioned before shaking up traditional sectors like funeral planning.

20:39 - 20:44
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
What are some outdated practices you believe need reform and what are you proposing instead?

20:45 - 20:50
Adam Zuckerman
Yeah, I think that we need to start educating people little bit more of what the process actually is.

20:50 - 20:52
Adam Zuckerman
I'm a big supporter of Green Burial.

20:53 - 21:00
Adam Zuckerman
I'm a big supporter of engaging with funeral providers, funeral homes early in the process.

21:00 - 21:10
Adam Zuckerman
I think that far too often people have their first engagement when somebody is about to pass away, and we need to be digital first in a lot of ways.

21:10 - 21:11
Adam Zuckerman
We have to be open about it.

21:11 - 21:17
Adam Zuckerman
There needs to be less mysticism and confusion about what that process is.

21:18 - 21:30
Adam Zuckerman
There are some legislations that are being proposed right now to make that a little bit easier on consumers, which will have some very positive impacts if they pass, but also probably some unintended consequences.

21:31 - 21:35
Adam Zuckerman
But I think that we have to understand that there are options out there.

21:35 - 21:38
Adam Zuckerman
So a lot of people aren't aware that you can have a home funeral if you want.

21:38 - 21:41
Adam Zuckerman
That can save you thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars.

21:41 - 21:44
Adam Zuckerman
You have to understand what to do in that respect.

21:45 - 21:55
Adam Zuckerman
A lot of people don't recognize that there are free resources available to help you get that foundational estate planning activity and estate organization activity completed.

21:55 - 22:02
Adam Zuckerman
And they think that, oh, a trust, a will is only something for my wealthy cousin to do.

22:03 - 22:08
Adam Zuckerman
And the last thing is people aren't starting early enough.

22:08 - 22:10
Adam Zuckerman
If you get married, it's a life event.

22:10 - 22:12
Adam Zuckerman
You should review your estate plan.

22:12 - 22:14
Adam Zuckerman
If you have a baby, it's a life event.

22:14 - 22:16
Adam Zuckerman
You should review your estate plan.

22:16 - 22:18
Adam Zuckerman
If you get a new job, it's a life event.

22:18 - 22:18
Adam Zuckerman
Review it.

22:19 - 22:25
Adam Zuckerman
You need to take steps and take the time because once you do that, things become just a little bit easier on everybody.

22:27 - 22:27
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

22:27 - 22:28
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

22:28 - 22:31
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
A lot of things that people, you know, need to be thinking about.

22:32 - 22:34
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
We're not doing this early enough, right?

22:34 - 22:35
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
We're not having that conversation.

22:35 - 22:40
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
We're waiting to the last minute where we're, uh, you know, grieving really.

22:40 - 22:45
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And, you know, I think of that movie, the big Lebowski, where he's sitting there, just because we're bereaved, we're not suckers.

22:46 - 22:46
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Right.

22:46 - 22:49
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Uh, uh, that, that's the first thing that pops into my head.

22:49 - 22:51
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And we've, we've done shows before on green burial.

22:51 - 22:53
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And I think that's a fantastic idea.

22:53 - 22:57
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
A lot of people don't even have that on their radar as an option.

22:58 - 23:09
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Uh, so a lot of really, really good information that you just shared with people and the idea of kind of getting ahead of it before they're in a position where they're having to make a decision on the fly there.

23:09 - 23:15
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Let's we've got just about 10, 5, 10 minutes or so here before the end of the show.

23:15 - 23:18
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So I want to keep going about technology, right?

23:18 - 23:21
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Because that's your platform is based on technology.

23:21 - 23:26
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
How does technology enhance the estate planning process that buried in in work?

23:26 - 23:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
And what future innovations are you excited about?

23:30 - 23:30
Adam Zuckerman
Oh, this is great.

23:30 - 23:31
Adam Zuckerman
I love it.

23:31 - 23:48
Adam Zuckerman
We are a technology first company, but not necessarily in the way that a lot of people associate with online platforms, we have deliberately not created a SaaS offering software as a service where people can go in and type in all of their information and have it saved online.

23:48 - 23:54
Adam Zuckerman
And the reason why is time and time again, I have seen people say, oh, the files are in the computer.

23:54 - 24:02
Adam Zuckerman
And it goes back to Zoolander, if you're a fan of movies, picking a file, a computer up over there and slamming on the ground, looking for the files.

24:02 - 24:10
Adam Zuckerman
If you put all your files in a computer and tell somebody to go to the computer and find it, odds are that person is never going to find those files.

24:11 - 24:15
Adam Zuckerman
So what we do is provide our documentation online for people to read.

24:15 - 24:19
Adam Zuckerman
The estate preparation package and checklist and guides, you can print them out if you want.

24:19 - 24:20
Adam Zuckerman
You can fill them out by hand.

24:21 - 24:26
Adam Zuckerman
We send a PDF or multiple PDFs interactive and print optimized for the estate preparation package.

24:26 - 24:31
Adam Zuckerman
If you would like to complete it by hand, but we're not providing an online system right now.

24:31 - 24:34
Adam Zuckerman
We don't think that's the right way because it's not what people want.

24:34 - 24:35
Adam Zuckerman
It's not what people actually use.

24:36 - 24:39
Adam Zuckerman
On the other hand, we are using technology to make things easier.

24:40 - 24:46
Adam Zuckerman
So an example is we have guides, and I'm actually going to go to the website real quick to load up how many we have because we add them quite often.

24:46 - 24:49
Adam Zuckerman
It's more than like 20, 30 guides and facts and whatnot.

24:50 - 25:10
Adam Zuckerman
We have a funeral end of life tradition guide for navigating Christian funerals, Hindu funerals, end-of-life traditions, Jewish, LGBTQ+, Muslim, secular, and then we've taken those guides, we've imported them into ChatGPT, so instead of reading through things, you now can have a conversation, either type or voice, if you have that option.

25:11 - 25:13
Adam Zuckerman
Based on our guides.

25:13 - 25:23
Adam Zuckerman
So what we're trying to do is create a knowledge base and a resource base that anybody can use, and then we're and meet you how you want to use that technology.

25:23 - 25:24
Adam Zuckerman
And I think other.

25:24 - 25:25
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Companies.

25:25 - 25:26
Adam Zuckerman
Should do that too, if possible.

25:27 - 25:28
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love that, I love that.

25:28 - 25:30
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Cause that sounds like the best of both worlds there.

25:31 - 25:41
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
You're using, you know, the information that you have available, those guides, and it sounded like there was a whole bunch of different stuff there, but where people can actually have conversations with them where they're interacting with them.

25:41 - 26:01
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
But on the other side, the idea that, you know, when stuff happens, it's not necessarily the case that people are going to log in and look for stuff online and the idea of having those those either hard copies or this really organized way of accessing it, I think is a really good way to do that.

26:01 - 26:05
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
When I hear the SAAS software, there's that's so popular right now.

26:05 - 26:08
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I almost think of it like a multi level marketing scheme.

26:08 - 26:10
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I know that it's it's it's legitimized.

26:10 - 26:12
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
It's not that but I'm such a big skeptic.

26:13 - 26:15
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I see a whole bunch of business models off of that.

26:15 - 26:20
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So I like that It's not like that, so excellent.

26:20 - 26:22
Adam Zuckerman
Everything that we do goes through a mom filter.

26:22 - 26:23
Adam Zuckerman
And I love my mom.

26:23 - 26:24
Adam Zuckerman
She's absolutely wonderful.

26:25 - 26:28
Adam Zuckerman
But she's probably not the person you want to go to for advice on.

26:28 - 26:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
How to use it.

26:29 - 26:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
She's going to.

26:29 - 26:30
Adam Zuckerman
Get mad at me for saying that.

26:30 - 26:31
Adam Zuckerman
Sorry, mom.

26:31 - 26:36
Adam Zuckerman
But the reality is that she can take one of our binders and she can fill it out by hand.

26:36 - 26:43
Adam Zuckerman
If she had to, she could put a USB drive in and she can fill it out and hit Save and email that to me if I needed it.

26:43 - 26:47
Adam Zuckerman
She's not going to want to walk around the house with an app and take pictures of things.

26:47 - 26:48
Adam Zuckerman
It's just not what she's going to want to do.

26:49 - 26:52
Adam Zuckerman
I want to meet the people where they are.

26:52 - 27:01
Adam Zuckerman
If you have parents who are over 65 and they're not tech first, you can sit down with them and go through these materials and they're going to understand it.

27:01 - 27:05
Adam Zuckerman
It's very different when you say go and fill this out on the computer, figure it out on your own.

27:05 - 27:09
Adam Zuckerman
Like it's it's a world of hurt that we we don't want to impose on people.

27:11 - 27:18
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Now, I love that that's all levels of digital literacy, they meeting them where they're at, and I love that as an idea there.

27:18 - 27:20
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
We're right here towards the end of the show.

27:21 - 27:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
For listeners thinking about starting their estate planning, what first steps do you recommend that they take to get on the right path?

27:29 - 27:33
Adam Zuckerman
Okay, first thing is you need to start organizing your information.

27:33 - 27:42
Adam Zuckerman
If you go to an estate planning attorney or you try and make a will, if you don't understand what you have, it's going to be very difficult to create that first foundational element for you.

27:42 - 27:49
Adam Zuckerman
Now, in America, depending on what state you're in and who you go to, an estate planning lawyer is going to cost you between $150 to $400 an hour.

27:50 - 27:55
Adam Zuckerman
An initial comprehensive estate plan basic is probably going to run you $1,500 to $5,000, right?

27:55 - 28:05
Adam Zuckerman
But if you have all your information organized, like what we help you do in the estate preparation package or yourself, if you're a do-it-yourselfer, you can reduce those billable hours.

28:05 - 28:11
Adam Zuckerman
So the first thing is, understand what assets you have, what liabilities you have, what's in state.

28:12 - 28:18
Adam Zuckerman
So then when you decide to take the next step on your own or go to a service professional, they have the information that they need.

28:19 - 28:23
Adam Zuckerman
The the analogy is you don't start baking a cake before you get your ingredients, right?

28:24 - 28:25
Adam Zuckerman
You need to get your ingredients, then you bake the cake.

28:25 - 28:28
Adam Zuckerman
So there is a step process order that you need to go through.

28:30 - 28:30
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

28:30 - 28:34
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it and that is going to shave hours off of that process.

28:34 - 28:42
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
If you even if you're a do it yourself or but you hire an attorney to go back and do a second set of eyes just to review to make sure you did your job right.

28:43 - 28:48
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Even in that situation, being prepared, you're gonna make less mistakes, less billable hours there.

28:49 - 28:51
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
So that is great advice.

28:51 - 28:53
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
We are right here at the end of the show.

28:53 - 28:55
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Adam, thank you so much for coming on today.

28:55 - 28:59
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
What have I forgot to ask you that you'd like to share with listeners today?

28:59 - 29:01
Adam Zuckerman
Well, I think that there's one important takeaway.

29:02 - 29:05
Adam Zuckerman
That is you have to start somewhere.

29:05 - 29:09
Adam Zuckerman
If you don't start somewhere, the government is going to decide for you.

29:09 - 29:11
Adam Zuckerman
That process is called interstate.

29:11 - 29:14
Adam Zuckerman
So if you pass away and you don't have a will, guess what?

29:14 - 29:21
Adam Zuckerman
There is a process in the state where you live that the court will designate who that administer is or who your representative is.

29:21 - 29:22
Adam Zuckerman
So get started.

29:23 - 29:24
Adam Zuckerman
Don't leave it up to somebody else.

29:24 - 29:28
Adam Zuckerman
Even if you have very little bit, it's a foundation that you can always update later.

29:28 - 29:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

29:29 - 29:30
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Adam, thank you so much.

29:30 - 29:34
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
For listeners who'd like to find out more, what is a good place for them to go?

29:36 - 29:36
Adam Zuckerman
Buriedinwork.com.

29:37 - 29:38
Adam Zuckerman
It's a bit punny but easy to remember.

29:39 - 29:40
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

29:40 - 29:40
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
I love it.

29:40 - 29:42
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Adam, thank you so much for being on the show today.

29:42 - 29:43
Christopher Hensley, RICP®, CES™
Have a good rest of the day there.

29:44 - 29:44
Adam Zuckerman
Thanks so much.

29:44 - 29:45
Adam Zuckerman
Appreciate it, Chris.