Money Matters Episode 315- Don't Retire ... Graduate W/ Eric Brotman

Money Matters Episode 315

Eric: [00:00:00] It's been said that to be young and broke as an inconvenience and to be old and broke as a tragedy. So we want to certainly avoid that longevity is something to plan for. And there are lots of ways to do it. Generally speaking, and I go through in the book, three different strategies for utilizing money.

Eric: And I, I know you're an RICP and you did some of the same education I did. So you're going to, this is going to sound familiar to you, but maybe not to your audience. Okay. Depending on the withdrawal rate that is required in order to to pay the bills and live with dignity, that withdrawal rate will govern the strategy that makes or strategies that make the most sense for you.

Eric: So if you've built a big enough nest egg that you can live on one or two percent of it every year, it's total return. It can be in one bucket and you just pull a little out and you expect that over time you're going to out earn what you're pulling out net of inflation. If on the other you're more at four or five percent, four percent call it.

Eric: You need to start segregating assets and in this case it's been called the bucket strategy It's been called the time barba. It's got all kinds of names But really what it [00:01:00] means is you have some money that's going to get you through the next five years some money That's going to get you through the five after that and then you still have long term money So that you can continue to grow it because it's not just that you need a level income for all those years You need to keep up with inflation

Christopher: Welcome to Money Matters where we unravel the mysteries of financial freedom and redefine the journey to retirement. In today's special episode, we're diving into a conversation that could very well Change the way you look at your financial future. Imagine a world where retirement isn't the finish line, but rather a graduation into a life where your wealth works for you.

Christopher: Providing security, freedom and endless opportunities for growth. Sounds intriguing. Stay with us because you don't want to miss a single minute of this. I'm Chris Hensley. I am your host today. And joining us is none other than Eric Brotman, Eric Brotman. The visionary behind don't retire, graduate. Eric is not just the CEO of BFG financial advisors [00:02:00] with a legacy that spans over two decades.

Christopher: He's a pioneer who's redefining retirement planning, making it accessible. And achievable for everyone with the launch of the second edition of his game changing book. We'll explore not just how, but the why behind his approach. And trust me, by the end of the show, you'll be looking at your financial planner in a whole new light.

Christopher: Thank you, Eric. Thank you so much for joining us this morning,

Eric: Chris. It's great to be here. I'm excited for this episode too. It sounds like great content. Let's do it.

Christopher: Absolutely. And you know, just to share with listeners, we met at the future proof event. And you know that was, we, before we hit record here, we started talking a little bit about that and just a fantastic industry of event there.

Christopher: And literally this is old fashioned networking, right? We, we sat across from each other at a table, we shook hands, we traded business cards and it, It turns out that there's a story there that you are, or you are on your [00:03:00] second edition of the book don't retire graduate with that book coming out with this new release.

Christopher: What new insights or updates can readers anticipate in comparison to the first edition?

Eric: Well, there's, there's a couple of things, Chris. First a lot of the rules and regs have changed legislatively since the first edition came out and the first edition came out just in line with COVID. So you can imagine launching a book right as the world shut down for a while.

Eric: So I wanted to make it timely. However, I also learned a lesson and that was to also make it timeless. So I wanted to spend a little less time in the second edition dealing with facts and figures and a whole lot more dealing with concepts and the wise. I do think it's a, it's an easier read. I think it's a better read.

Eric: And at the end of the day, I think it is going to change some lives and impact people. So it is up to date for 2024, but it's also written in such a way that I don't have to feel like I need to redo it just because Congress shifts in, in November or what have you.

Christopher: I love it. And we know being in the industry that that stuff [00:04:00] changes on a daily basis, trying to keep up with the, with everything there, but that's fantastic.

Christopher: So the, the, the writing environment, you were in the middle of the pandemic when the first one was released. And so there's, you know, the, you've made these updates with the rules and the regulations there. In your experience, what are the most common misconceptions about retirement planning and how does your approach in Don't Retire Graduate address these?

Eric: Well, I think you mentioned it in the opener. The biggest misconception is that this is the end, that you, you get your first job and you start retirement planning as if that's going to be an end date and you've hit that target and you're finished. And really that is an antiquated concept that comes back from the days when 65 was old and 72 was, was about as old as we got.

Eric: So it's one thing to have seven years, often unhealthy in retirement, as an end. But people today are living a lot longer and a lot better. [00:05:00] And if you're 60 what have you, you could still have almost half of your adult life left. I mean, you know, there are people turning 108 and while I know not everyone will be blessed with that kind of longevity, we have to prepare for the possibility that we are.

Eric: And And so that means having something to do. I, you can't, you can't rely on daytime TV and shuffleboard for what could be 30 years. It's just not going to work. So the financial end of it is different because we have to afford a longer period of time, but the non financial piece of it is very significant because if you're not engaged, if you're not a successful retiree, which is different than being a financially independent retiree, you're not successfully retired.

Eric: And I put that in quotes, then you're missing the boat.

Christopher: I'm hearing that successful retiree doesn't necessarily go with the dollar sign. Not that that's not a thing, but being successful, you, you shared with us people, what an important message. People are living longer. You know, you gave the example of [00:06:00] one Oh eight, my grandmother's 96 and she's on Facebook still.

Christopher: So, you know, this is a real thing. And you, you led with the idea that this is, is the end. It's not necessarily the end, right? 65 is just getting started. People are living longer. The idea of, of becoming inactive, sitting in front of the television and getting in the lazy boy is not a good retirement plan.

Christopher: , let's pivot a little bit and just talk about financial independence. Financial independence is a goal for many, yet the path can seem dawning. Could you outline a, maybe a basic roadmap for achieving financial independence at different stages of life?

Eric: Absolutely. And, and, and first of all, Chris, I think it's real important to remember that there is, it's never too late to start.

Eric: Yes, it's better if you start early, but there are lots of forces upon us where if you're 35 and you really haven't done, you haven't done what you feel you need to do, it's not too late. There's always a way to [00:07:00] improve tomorrow. So in terms of the, the different stages of life, when you're first getting started, the biggest thing to do is to avoid adverse debt.

Eric: Young people get in enormous trouble, whether it's student loans or consumer debt, credit cards car notes all kinds of things. And. If you are trying to build wealth, it is not great to start building your foundation when you're in a hole. You want to begin that at at least zero you know, not at a negative net worth position.

Eric: So I think be really cautious with student loans and other borrowing. When you first get started, you know, as you get older and you start thinking about a first home and maybe a spouse, maybe kids, you know, your life starts to change. You really have to open lines of communication and work together.

Eric: You know, it still does take a village and we are with our extended families. You need to make some decisions around that. And, and then you get into your sandwich generation and that's, that's me, us proud Gen Xers, you know, we got parents getting older, we got, and we're worried about them, we've got kids to educate and we're worried about them and we're working 50 and [00:08:00] 60 hours a week.

Eric: And a lot of times that means starting to look at other ways to manage your, your finances than trying to do it yourself. And it's not to suggest that it's not always possible to do it yourself. You and I both know there's nothing we do that's neurosurgery. Nothing. But having both the ability and the interest and the time to do it and do it well, I think is where you start looking at that.

Eric: And so as you get into what I call the junior year, because we use don't retire, graduate is, is freshman, sophomore, junior and senior years of your financial life. The junior year is where your income's at its highest. It's where you have to start thinking about taxes in a different way. You know, taxes when you're 22 are annoying.

Eric: Taxes when you're 52 are unbelievable. And so understanding that as your income goes up, so does your, your pound of flesh. And then you get into the senior year and senior year. I don't want to use that like senior citizen. It's not the senior year. Yes, you're doing some legacy planning, but that's more than money.

Eric: That's [00:09:00] making sure you're leaving behind visions and values and stories and things that matter a lot more than things you know the the legacy that you leave behind whether it's philanthropy or whether it's family values or whether it's It's some type of tradition or some type of business or some type of of of a immortality And not not to be creepy or anything But you know, we all sort of want to live forever in some way and there's lots of ways to do it And I think there's better ways than slapping your name on a building that 20 years from now, no one will know who you were anyway.

Christopher: I love it. I love it. You know, I, I started taking notes here and I'm like, I'm gonna have to get the book. This is a lot of good information here. So, okay. And you did, you shared a lot of really good stuff. I totally agree. You started with the idea of, of when you're getting. Just started in life to avoid debt.

Christopher: You know, you got the student loans there, but trying to build wealth that can really only just be a roadblock. So be careful with that. And then you gave us the, you know, the junior years, you talked about taxes, [00:10:00] how taxes become more than just a little painful and then taking us. All the way to the senior years.

Christopher: And when you said senior, you're talking about leaving a legacy and the legacy can be, it doesn't have to be a dollar sign either. It can be values. It can be oral tradition with families and that sort of stuff. Very, very important, impactful things for listeners. I love it. I love it. I'm going to get your book and read it.

Christopher: Cause I started taking enough notes here. I was like, all right, I'm just going to get the book. And I would encourage listeners to do the same here. So let's. Let's talk about now. You've in the past. You've spoken about the importance about preparing for the next recession, right? From your perspective, what are the key financial moves individuals should make to fortify their finances against future economic downturns?

Eric: Some of this depends on the season of life too. I mean, you know, when you're 25 and when you're 65, these things hit differently also a, because of your net worth and B because of your timeframe. So one size never ever fits all Chris, you know, [00:11:00] that it's all, it's all nuanced to the individual circumstance.

Eric: However the first thing I would urge people to do is not to try and guess or time anything. It is impossible to time. markets. It's been proven time and time again. You just can't do it. And if you miss the best 10 days in a, in a 20 year market cycle, you've missed most of the upside. And so at the end of the day, instead of trying to time your way in or out of investments or markets, it is much better to make sure that you're prepared for the opportunities or the challenges created by economic downturns, recession it certainly being one of them.

Eric: So when you're a young person, what that means is Automate your savings and investing. Be doing something every paycheck, every month, what it dollar cost average, whether it's your 401k or a health savings account or a brokerage account or whatever it is, do it regularly. And if the market starts to drop, remember that you're now buying the same thing you liked before, but you're buying it on sale.[00:12:00]

Eric: When there's a sale at Macy's, there's a line around the door at four o'clock in the morning. And when there's a sale on wall street, people think something's defective. If you can get the same thing you liked yesterday for less price today, keep doing that. Now, the caveat there is when you're not a buyer, because there's only three kinds of, of investing, there's buying, there's holding, and they're selling.

Eric: If you're a buyer, a recession actually winds up being good for you. I know it sounds bizarre, but if you keep your process going, it winds up building significant wealth. If you're a holder, what it does is it costs you time. Because you look at back at 08, 09, it took almost five years to recover from that.

Eric: And so people who weren't buying and weren't taking advantage of that really lost five years. And a lot of them had to work longer than they expected, which was unfortunate. Some of them, you know, some of them really struggled from that. And it did push our working lives longer for a lot of boomers.

Eric: So the best way to ha try and continuously be a it's within your account[00:13:00]

Eric: Make sure that you have dry powder. You have cash in that account that you can continue to buy with. That dollar cost averaging doesn't have to be new dollars. It can be recycled dollars that are already yours. And then if you're a seller, you have to be the most cautious because I liken your financial independence to an orchard.

Eric: You have all these trees and they bear fruit. And if you take care of the trees, they bear fruit every single year and you can pick and eat the fruit all you want. If you're selling in a down market, you essentially you're chopping branches off or even chopping trees down Which means every year you're going to have less and less and less fruit and it's a recipe to run out of money So instead of doing that have a five to ten year and yes, I said five to ten years five to ten years of relatively secure Expenses covered if you know that you spend ten thousand dollars a month, you need a hundred and twenty thousand dollars a year You That's going to be 600, 000 or more that you [00:14:00] need to have in your portfolio.

Eric: That's cash. That is a significant lift, but if you do it and markets drop, you won't be forced to chop branches off the orchard. And so I, especially now that cash is back to pay in four and 5%, it's, it's no longer, you know, stuck in a sock drawer. We can actually even get return on cash now. So it's important to maintain that cash is an asset class.

Eric: Again, it's no longer a waste of time is if you do it right.

Christopher: I love it. I love it. So that short answer, I'm gonna say short answer, that answer you gave us, there was so much information in there for listeners. Just, just nuggets of gold there. I mean, you started with the idea that I'm being prepared for not only the opportunities, but the challenges that come up.

Christopher: If there's an economic downturn, you talked about it's, it's time in the market, not. timing, the idea that people are buying when things are on sale, the idea of dollar cost averaging very strong. And you even mentioned that, you know, you, you, you made reference to 2008, [00:15:00] 2009, when the market was down, people continued having to work longer, but you made the point that if they continue to be a buyer during that time, they're still buying things while they're on sale.

Christopher: And you make, you use the word Automate the idea that people should be able to kind of get their savings going and set it and forget it. Right? Put it up. Put it on automatic there. I love it. I love it. Fantastic information. A lot of really powerful points there. Let me ask you about the idea of outliving your money because we talked earlier, you know, I'm right down the street from the medical center here in Houston each and every day they're discovering cures.

Christopher: People are living longer. It's just a fact. So the concept of not outliving your money is it's crucial in retirement planning. Can you share some strategies or principles that ensure long term financial security?

Eric: Well, I can certainly try. It's, it's been said that to be young and broke is an inconvenience and to be old and broke is a tragedy.

Eric: So we want to certainly avoid [00:16:00] that. Longevity is something to plan for and there are lots of ways to do it. Generally speaking, and I go through in the book, three different strategies for utilizing money. And I know you're an RICP and you did some of the same education I did. So you're going to, this is going to sound familiar to you, but maybe not to your audience, depending on the withdrawal rate that is required in order to pay the bills and live with dignity, that withdrawal rate will govern the strategy that makes or strategies that make the most sense for you.

Eric: So if you've built a big enough nest egg that you can live on one or two percent of it every year It's total return it can be in one bucket You just pull a little out and you expect that over time you're going to out earn what you're pulling out net of inflation If on the other hand you're more at four or five percent four percent call it you need to start segregating assets And in this case, it's been called the bucket strategy.

Eric: It's been called the time bar, but it's got all kinds of names. But really what it means is you have some money that's going to get you through [00:17:00] the next five years, some money that's going to get you through the five after that, and then you still have long term money so that you can continue to grow it.

Eric: Because it's not just that you need a level income for all those years, you need to keep up with inflation. And in this country, we'd forgotten inflation. Remember that? Remember Jimmy Carter? You had forgotten inflation and it's back. And now you go to the grocery store and you're like, Holy cow, what just happened?

Eric: And so you need to be able to keep up with that. Also if you are north of that if if in order to To reach financial independence and not outlive your money You're you're requiring more than a four and a half or five percent withdrawal to do it You have to start looking at income streams and trading principle for income That might mean ways to utilize your pension It might mean using annuity type vehicles or other insured vehicles to create an income.

Eric: It might mean strategies like reverse mortgages or lines of credit or other things to utilize and untap the equity in your home so you can continue to live with dignity. All of these strategies scare the heck out of people [00:18:00] because the media tells you the terrible stories. And what I would say, Chris, is did you hear about flight 236 from Cleveland this morning?

Eric: And the answer is no and that's because it landed fine. And so it didn't make the news You only hear about the one that doesn't go right When you're dealing with those strategies and reverse mortgage is a perfect example People are horrified the bank's going to take their home. This is going to be a disaster The truth is it's just a tool and it can be a tool that's, that's appropriate for you, or it can be a tool that's inappropriate for you.

Eric: And having someone advise you who is not selling reverse mortgages is what matters. Let a third party, your financial advisor your accountant, your attorney, your whole team of people, whatever that looks like, Let them help look at that in a way that is not creating revenue for them because unfortunately you deal with salespeople There's a there's a an incentive to have a a deal close or to get a piece of business done To to avoid that is really important.

Eric: That doesn't mean they're not good They can be terrific in the right situation, [00:19:00] but you really once you're north of five percent withdrawals unless you're well over 80 at the time, you really have to start looking at income

Christopher: options. I love it. I love it. So these are definitely concepts that people need to get familiar with.

Christopher: And you said it's, it's, you know, either you have that amount of interest that you're able to spin off and not dip into your principal, or if you're dipping into principal, you better darn well, start looking at some of these other options as well. If it moves, further down. So, so fantastic strategies there.

Christopher: I want to ask you, I want to pivot again because you and I can see it in the background there. I see don't retire, graduate. You have had your podcast for many years before in the past here. And that podcast you offer, you know, wealth of knowledge for listeners. What inspired you to start that podcast and how does it compliment the themes of your book?

Eric: Well, I, I went to FinCon, which is a conference for media and, and and financial folks, and I learned a lot about the podcast [00:20:00] universe. And I realized that it was an amazing way to not only get a message across and to reach an audience, but also to interview amazing people and reach one another's audiences, much like we're doing today, which is wonderful.

Eric: So I hosted the show for five years. And had a hundred plus episodes and in each episode as the show developed I started asking grown people what they wanted to be when they grew up And not necessarily what they wanted to do But what they wanted to be and we got in some really great conversations about qualitative things You know, we certainly had some financial experts on the show over the years, but most of the time it was stories It was people sharing how they bootstrapped to start a company or how they got out of a bankruptcy or how they built Significant wealth and created a legacy and just interviewing Really interesting people and getting awfully human with them was terrific So the book and the podcast have the same title because the messaging here is That retirement should be a stepping stone to the next amazing chapter of life It should not be the end and [00:21:00] that's those were the kind of guests we worked with and it was wonderful And i've concentrated this year in the the book edition the second book edition But I think the podcast will be back at some point because I miss it It was a, a wonderfully fun thing to do every week to talk to somebody who who shared stories and shared insights and shared themselves with, with our, our listeners.

Eric: So I think it'll be back. Stay tuned. No launch

Christopher: date. I'm smiling cause I know it gets in your blood and it kind of made me take a hiatus, but it kind of sticks there. So, and you know, just to share with the listeners, you, I had heard about this. But when we were at future proof, I, this was the first time I had heard from a financial advisor telling me, Hey, this is a great conference.

Christopher: This is something you need to check out. So I took that. I it's in the back of my head here and I might have to visit. So,

Eric: well, it's, it's in Atlanta this fall and it is it is eyeopening because there might be 3000 people there and a very small minority are, are the financial advisors. Most of them are [00:22:00] content creators.

Eric: writers, bloggers, YouTubers videographers and ghost writers, all kinds of different folks who are creating content. And they're all just an amazing community. It's such a great group of people. I felt at home immediately, despite having no idea what I was doing there the first time I went. I literally love it.

Eric: I was like lost, but, but a year later I was asked to speak about that experience. And so on, on our consulting website, there's a talk I gave at FinCon about being sort of the new financial advisor trying to create influence. And I, you know, I've had a lot of people watch that and it's pretty funny actually.

Eric: It's all the things I did wrong. That you can just laugh at me. So Brotman consulting group. com has that video on the homepage and you can laugh at me all you want. That's part of the fun.

Christopher: I'm going to go check it out. What you just described financial advisors who need to be better at content. There's a lot of us out there.

Christopher: So this sounds like something I need to check out. I love it. I love it. Now that does lead us into the [00:23:00] idea that, you know, a lot of the concepts we deal with are really complex and it's the idea of bringing those to the, to the to, to making those complex concepts simpler. Financial planning often seems geared towards those already well off.

Christopher: How do you make financial planning accessible and beneficial for people across different income levels?

Eric: That's a phenomenal question. And it's, it's something our industry is grappling with because there are so many firms out there that are expecting clients to have a specific net worth or specific manageable assets, or they won't even talk to you.

Eric: And I find that frustrating and for the public a huge put off. Imagine being told no, you're not good enough to come work with us now, but, but don't worry. Once you get there, we'll be calling you. You know, I, I feel like that's the wrong message to send. So at our firm, we have a private wealth management service for our, for our higher net worth clients, but we also have what we call financial planning for all, which reaches folks without a [00:24:00] minimum for assets on a flat fee engagement basis, where you can get a basic financial plan and start building these things.

Eric: And we'll grow with you for the next 40 years. I might not be sitting here 40 years from now, but we will because there's eight advisors. We've got a very young, talented team. And and we really do try and meet people where they are. So we've, we've created that. We've also done a lot of financial literacy work, Chris trying to, trying to put content out.

Eric: That's free free white papers free financial literacy course, that's an online course that's available on our site. We have a library and a university on our site just to give resources to the public. And you know, that's rewarding for us. I, I, I hate the idea of saying, sorry, you're not good enough to work with us.

Eric: I just, that's just not who I am. I won't do it.

Christopher: I heard a really good solution there. I love that. I love that. The idea that there's two different models there, and it's not saying no, that that there's a way for people with lower assets to work with you. And then even the idea of multi generational, these are possibly younger and you've got younger [00:25:00] advisors there who can keep that conversation going.

Christopher: So it's a, as a business owner, it's a good way to keep, keep your clients still. So all of our clients are retiring. And so I like that idea. I think that's a fantastic idea. You also talked about. about the financial literacy work that you've done and we're right here at the beginning of April. So we are smack dab.

Christopher: You know, we're in financial literacy month. That is a great resource that people can go to and learn more about. Let's talk about. You know, the decision really to go out and seek a financial advisor. What are signs that someone should consider professional advice?

Eric: I frankly think just about everyone should at least kick the tires with one or more advisors and understand how it works.

Eric: There is a full chapter in the book. dedicated to the interview questions. You can ask financial advisors to figure out not if they're good or bad, but if they're right for you, if, if there's a fit and frankly, an advisor worth his or her salt is going to say to you, you know what? You don't need this yet.[00:26:00]

Eric: You ought to do these three things. And we ought to, we ought to follow up with this conversation in a year or two, because you know, much like doctors take an oath to first do no harm. I think we need to do that as well. So it's not that just anybody signs up and you work with them. Sometimes it's better for them not to.

Eric: But at least we can say, here are the things that we think you ought to do. This is the way to improve. So we do offer a consultation to folks. We don't charge for that initial meeting. I think it's, it's I think it's important to get to know somebody and to feel comfortable. And I think people who've never done this before.

Eric: Need to know what questions to ask because it's very very daunting There's and I said already there's nothing we do that people can't do themselves But the the value of the value of a financial advisor usually is behavioral and qualitative Not just quantitative do I think i'm going to pick a portfolio?

Eric: That's going to better get a better return than somebody else is going to pick. I don't maybe we will maybe we won't Maybe sometimes we will and sometimes we won't will it be appropriate? Yes. Will it [00:27:00] be professional? Absolutely Will it be cost conscious? Of course, but it, but there's no way to know that that outcome is going to be assured for sure.

Eric: But what we can do is we can take a dispassionate look at some of these very emotional moments in life, the transition points. So when do you find a financial advisor? I think that the target, even though I think everyone should talk to someone, I think the target is when there's a big life change. a marriage, a divorce, a birth, a death, a new job you know, a planned retirement, even at that point, when there's going to be a major shift, a move, you know, if you're moving from, from Texas to Nevada, the things are going to change.

Eric: You need potentially new legal advice and it's going to change your tax picture. And so I think it's always wise to, to get a third party advice on these various things. In fact, my wife and I have a financial advisor. I don't try and do it myself. I have to take off my advisor hat and put on my my husband hat or I'm gonna sound like I'm talking at her and saying this is what we're [00:28:00] doing instead of having the same conversation that couples need to have that's healthy.

Eric: So

Christopher: that is it. We're not just practice. We're, we're practicing what we preach there. I love it. I love it. I mean, you see doctors that they same thing they get home. They don't want us like we getting that 2nd set of eyes is a really good thing. You know, you led with the idea of 1st do no harm. Totally agree.

Christopher: You know, over the last 20 years of doing this, I'm sure you've got stories where you've seen, you know, you've come in after an advisor sold them like a 20 percent surrender charge annuity or something like that. You're like, Oh, my goodness. You know, it's a, we, we get these stories over our career. But at a minimum, leaving a situation better than we found it.

Christopher: That is a, I think that's the, that was very astute to put that right at the beginning. The idea of people doing their due diligence even not, not knowing what questions to ask. So you putting this in the book that things that they should be asking as they're interviewing advisors and kind of seeing if there's a match there for them.

Christopher: I, I, All of this is really good. You [00:29:00] talked about the behavioral and we know that the behavioral part is, is so strong, such a big thing. And that those life events that happen, that those are triggers that kind of get you looking towards working with an advisor. We've got just a few minutes left. We've got about four minutes before the end of the show.

Christopher: Let's talk some more about the book here. You know, in the book, you, you discuss steps to take at each phase for financial independence. Could you g of some actionable steps or 40 should consider? We

Eric: 40. That's basically in m year because you're not t first job, but you're, yo highest earning years yet of the time, that's when big life changes.

Eric: You're A spouse, you're considering a house, you're considering kids. I sound like Dr. Seuss. But, but I think the most important thing you can do at that stage in your life, if there is only one step, it would be to communicate with your partner or your [00:30:00] spouse and to make sure that you're being transparent and forthright and that you're aligned in terms of what some of your goals and interests are.

Eric: There's certainly lots of check boxes, things to do. Oh, let's max our retirement plan, or let's do this or that. Those are, those are tactics. But strategically speaking, I think having open communication with your, with your spouse or partner, at least potentially with others, but definitely with your spouse or partner.

Eric: I think that makes sense because if you're pulling in different directions, you're, you're not rowing together, you're not getting anywhere.

Christopher: Great advice. That's not just financial advice. That's relationship advice there, right? You have to be on the same page. People have to talk about these things and some of these difficult conversations.

Christopher: If you don't have them, it's going to be just worse off down the road. So I think that is a fantastic thought to leave with today. We're right here at the end. I want to ask you two more questions here. One, for listeners who want to find out more about you and the book, what's the best website for them to go to?[00:31:00]

Eric: Best website is Brotmanmedia. com. There you can find our white papers, our free courses and resources a link to buy the book and the workbook. The workbook actually takes you through 21 exercises to build a financial plan. And so that's the best place to go. And one of the white papers, one of the free resources is called, What is FP?

Eric: And it's what is financial planning? And it's part of that interview and part of what planning should be and what it, what it isn't. And that's free to anybody who's interested in getting started. I love it. I love it. And then the last

Christopher: minute

Eric: here,

Christopher: I'm making use of my whole time here in the last few minutes here, what have I forgot to ask you that you'd like to leave listeners with today?

Eric: Well, you didn't ask me what I wanted to be when I grow up, which, which I think that's true, ultimately you know, it's important for all of us as financial advisors to, to eat our own cooking. You know, you mentioned that before, but I won't eat in a restaurant if the chef won't eat there. So making sure that we're taking our own advice.

Eric: And for me, that means [00:32:00] creating a succession plan that the, the CEO of our firm over the next couple of years will be migrating to someone who is, I think she's going to be even better than than I've ever done. And she's going to take us to a new level. It means evolving my own career. It means my family's going through some changes, which will be exciting.

Eric: I'll be empty nested in a couple of years. So, you know, this is an evolution. I want to work for as long as I'm useful and happy and having fun, but in a very different way as a, as an older person. So that's, that's the only thing you didn't ask me what I wanted to be when I grow up and I'm going to go with that.

Christopher: Well, if I did, that's a great answer. So Eric, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this. I had a blast. I appreciate you coming on the show. We mentioned that we met at future proof. We've got another one coming up in September, so I will probably see you there, so have a good rest of the day there,

Eric: thanks, Chris.

Eric: I look forward to it. Take care.