Ethan Nkana: Money Matters Podcast Interview

March 14, 2024 . 10:56 AM . ID: 271595565

Transcript

00:01 - 00:03
[speaker unknown]
This conference will now be recorded.

00:03 - 00:05
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Good, morning.

00:05 - 00:06
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
You're listening to money, Matters.

00:06 - 00:17
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Imagine you've spent the last decade of your life and rigorous medical training emerging as a doctor ready to heal and serve, only to realize that, navigating your careers.

00:17 - 00:20
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Financial and contractual aspects.

00:20 - 00:26
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Feel like facing a whole new beast welcome to today's Money Matters, where we dive deep with Ethan ...

00:26 - 00:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Ethernet Say your last name for me.

00:29 - 00:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So, I don't want to.

00:29 - 00:31
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I don't want to slaughter, and I want to make sure I'm getting it right.

00:31 - 00:32
ethan
Yeah.

00:32 - 00:33
ethan
Thanks, Christopher.

00:33 - 00:34
ethan
It's in Kona.

00:35 - 00:41
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
In kind of OK with Ethan in Canada, the CEO of Rocky Mountain Physician as Agency.

00:41 - 00:49
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Ethan's stands at the forefront of a movement that champions physicians at both the dawn and the twilight of their careers.

00:49 - 00:56
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Ensuring they're not just healers, but savvy negotiators who can secure their worth and their financial future.

00:56 - 01:06
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Whether you're a fresh face, doctor embarking on the noble path or a seasoned veteran contemplating retirement, financial intricacies, ethan's expertise, is your beacon.

01:07 - 01:23
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And for the financial advisors who guide these medical professionals, this episode Promises Insights that will transform how you support your clients through the fiscal maze of their medical careers, Join us as we uncover strategies to navigate contract negotiations.

01:23 - 01:31
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Advocate for your value and lay down the financial groundwork for every career stage from residency to retirement.

01:31 - 01:38
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Ethan's approach to physician Advocacy provides a blueprint for securing not just a paycheck, but a legacy.

01:38 - 01:43
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Let's begin this journey together reshaping the financial landscape for doctors and their advisers.

01:44 - 01:45
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Oh, I'm going to take a breath.

01:45 - 01:45
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
That's a lot.

01:45 - 01:47
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And.

01:47 - 01:49
ethan
Stop it right there.

01:49 - 01:51
ethan
Christopher, that's it.

01:51 - 01:52
ethan
Yep.

01:52 - 01:54
ethan
Let's talk that clip it publish a.

01:54 - 01:57
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Package, it weren't good.

01:57 - 02:00
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Next song, we're done well.

02:00 - 02:01
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Ethan, thank you so much for being on the show.

02:01 - 02:04
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I'm super excited to have you on the show.

02:04 - 02:09
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
You know, I, when I'm most of the time when I'm going to show them where my podcast, her hat.

02:09 - 02:18
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
But today I'm going to where my financial advisor hat because a lot of listeners don't realize that I specialize with working with healthcare employees.

02:18 - 02:30
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I, the bulk of my business, I work with pre retirees, so 55 and up, people who are like 5 to 10 years away from retirement, but most of them are state employees, and most of them are healthcare workers.

02:30 - 02:32
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So I've got a good bit of doctors here.

02:32 - 02:39
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So I'm gonna kinda, when I, when I ask you questions here, I'm going to come at it from the idea of I'm a financial advisor.

02:39 - 02:40
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I want to help my clients out.

02:41 - 02:47
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
But also from some of the common questions I get from some of my clients who are retirees.

02:47 - 02:49
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So, so that's a lot.

02:49 - 02:51
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So, once again, thank you for being on the show.

02:52 - 02:54
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And I'd like to start with this one.

02:54 - 03:09
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So based on your experience in the medical and the legal fields, what advice would you give to new doctors that are just getting started in their careers, especially regarding contract negotiations and understanding their value?

03:11 - 03:15
ethan
We do a ton of education for residents and fellows all over the country.

03:16 - 03:27
ethan
Last week, we were with University of Michigan plastic surgery residents, and I shared with them the two biggest mistakes that doctors make going into their first contract, coming out of training.

03:28 - 03:31
ethan
First is that they only get one offer.

03:32 - 03:40
ethan
And when you only get one offer, it means that's the place you have to end up going, or start the process all over again, Which nobody wants to do.

03:41 - 03:51
ethan
So first, doctors must get between 2 to 3 offers within a, the same regional geographic area to negotiate those offers against one another first.

03:51 - 04:02
ethan
Secondly, the biggest mistake that I've seen doctors make throughout my career as a hospital executive was that rookie doctors would sign whatever we put in front of them.

04:03 - 04:10
ethan
They would go get a lawyer to look at it, tell them that it's legal, and then say, well, I had a lawyer look at it, so I'm ready to sign.

04:10 - 04:27
ethan
But they would never advocate for themselves, for their pay, support, resources, clinical staff, They would sign whatever's put in front of them, and that ends up, causing them to leave hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table and lost wages.

04:28 - 04:30
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I love that, that is very strong.

04:30 - 04:36
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So initially, the very first thing that they can do is get more than one offer, right.

04:36 - 04:39
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Don't just take whatever, whatever somebody puts in front of you.

04:39 - 04:57
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And then secondly, you're telling us that you know, more than often people will either just signed the contract without looking at it or they'll hire an attorney hope the attorney blesses the document but they're not necessarily they're looking for these these certain things that they're looking for in contracts, right.

04:57 - 04:59
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
But they're not really doing the advocacy part.

05:00 - 05:11
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And I think, well, as we'll talk, we'll kind of flesh out what the difference between that is, where, you know, we see lawyers sometimes doing this, but not necessarily the advocacy part, right?

05:11 - 05:14
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So, so I'll, we'll keep going on this idea here.

05:14 - 05:21
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
What are, what are some of the most common challenges physicians face during contract negotiations?

05:21 - 05:25
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And how does our MPA help address these issues?

05:25 - 05:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And maybe tell us a little bit about our MPA, because listeners don't know what that is shifts.

05:29 - 05:29
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Ya.

05:30 - 05:31
ethan
Know, I'll be happy to.

05:31 - 05:32
ethan
That's a great question.

05:33 - 05:37
ethan
I would say that the thing that represents in my experience.

05:37 - 05:48
ethan
So, just by way of background, I spent 15 years working as a hospital executive, everywhere from physician contracting, legal, food, and beverage.

05:48 - 05:56
ethan
If it's in a hospital, I know it, or I've done it, And now I get to use what I've learned to advocate for doctors in their contract negotiation.

05:57 - 06:05
ethan
Over those 15 years, I observed three common themes that tend to prevent doctors from getting what they deserve in their contracts.

06:05 - 06:10
ethan
Even though they're really smart, really good doctors, these are the most common barriers.

06:10 - 06:11
ethan
No tools, time, or training.

06:13 - 06:18
ethan
Doctors don't know where to get the salary data to understand, is my salary and compensation.

06:18 - 06:24
ethan
Even within the range of what other doctors are within my specialty in this region of the country.

06:24 - 06:40
ethan
Secondarily, doctors are incredibly busy, so as you can imagine, they don't have time to leave the clinic at 435 o'clock and then go into two hours of negotiation meetings or responding to e-mails all night when they're probably going to be doing their charting at home.

06:41 - 06:43
ethan
And, so, time tends to be the second barrier.

06:44 - 06:49
ethan
And then lastly, doctors get no training in contract negotiation.

06:50 - 06:59
ethan
We're trying to fix that by educating doctors all over the country in residency programs and fellowship programs on how they can prepare for success in their contract negotiation.

06:59 - 07:05
ethan
But historically, as you know, Christopher doctors don't get any training in medical school or residency.

07:05 - 07:07
ethan
Same thing with money is as you probably see in your practice.

07:08 - 07:14
ethan
And so they've come out and they have all of this training and all this newfound money, but they have no clue what to do with it.

07:16 - 07:16
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I love it.

07:16 - 07:17
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I love it.

07:17 - 07:33
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Now, Ethan, you shared a little bit about your background with us as far as really being a part of that hospital structure on the executive side for, for many years before kind of go in this direction, whether my mom was a cobol programmer for Memorial Hermann.

07:33 - 07:35
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So she worked for them for 20 years.

07:35 - 07:39
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Even though she wasn't healthcare, technically, she was under the hospital umbrella.

07:39 - 07:44
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So I remember going in on the weekends and just kind of growing up, and then that atmosphere there.

07:44 - 07:58
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
But you shared with us that, you know, these doctors do not have the time the tools or their training and maybe, you know, nor do we necessarily want them to if we're our lives, our hands.

07:58 - 08:06
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
We know we know that negotiating is, is a skill and it's one that Americans often don't do very well at.

08:06 - 08:17
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And so having somebody like yourself on their side to go down that route, I know that the doctors that I deal with people think, you know, doctors are highly compensated individuals, right?

08:18 - 08:31
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Well, that's true, but the amount of six figure student loan debt that I see, coming in with the average doctor, that's, that's a huge weight to have on your shoulder.

08:31 - 08:31
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So.

08:31 - 08:44
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So being able to not get screwed by the hospitals right or by the employer and in thinking about this as an actual negotiation as opposed to just taking whatever comes in.

08:44 - 08:45
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I think there's this fantastic information.

08:45 - 08:57
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Let's let's talk a little bit more about how your company, our MPA has changed the landscape for physicians negotiating those contracts.

08:57 - 09:02
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I know you've just described yourself as kind of the the Jerry Maguire, for doctors, right?

09:02 - 09:04
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And I love, I love that idea.

09:04 - 09:13
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Can you share a success story where you felt our MPA significantly impacted a doctor's career or life either?

09:14 - 09:20
ethan
I got a phone call from an attorney, working with a physician group of, of all women.

09:21 - 09:25
ethan
And he called me and said, hey, Ethan, I have these doctors.

09:25 - 09:30
ethan
They're really frustrated with their national hospital employer.

09:30 - 09:32
ethan
And they're considering going private practice.

09:33 - 09:44
ethan
So while private practice is a really big change, as you, as you probably know, Christopher, being a W two employee is a vast difference from running your own business, being a practice owner.

09:44 - 09:49
ethan
And so I said, well, let me sit down with these doctors and truly understand what's important to them.

09:50 - 09:57
ethan
And what it turned out to be, which is a theme for a lot of the doctors that I work with, is, those doctors wanted two things.

09:57 - 10:01
ethan
They want to stay together as a practice, and they want to stay with their current employer.

10:02 - 10:08
ethan
To do that, they need better support for their staff, better support clinical support in their practice.

10:08 - 10:11
ethan
They never once mentioned money to me.

10:11 - 10:22
ethan
They said our patients deserve better, And when I think about my work, I, yes, I work for doctors, but the ultimate beneficiary is the patients.

10:22 - 10:28
ethan
Because hapi doctors provide the best care because they're not stressed about all of these other things.

10:29 - 10:33
ethan
So I sit down with these six doctors, and we talk about what their goals are.

10:34 - 10:41
ethan
Now, while six individuals all have individual priorities, we're going to advocate for you as a collective.

10:42 - 10:50
ethan
And what we did is we sat down with their employer, and Christopher, they said The exact thing, I expect them to like, I sat on, I sat with those guys for 15 years.

10:50 - 10:51
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Even.

10:51 - 10:54
ethan
If we pay them one more dollars, we're going to end up in jail.

10:55 - 10:56
ethan
I said, OK.

10:56 - 10:58
ethan
I thought you might say that.

10:58 - 11:05
ethan
Just so you know, those doctors have an offer for 30% more to go across the street to their competitors.

11:06 - 11:08
ethan
Well, Ethan, they have a non-compete.

11:08 - 11:09
ethan
They can't go anywhere within 10 miles.

11:10 - 11:17
ethan
I also thought you might say that just so you know, the employer that's going to take them on has offered a bonus to pay for that non-compete.

11:17 - 11:21
ethan
So if you do decide to come after them, they'll have the money to pay for the penalty.

11:22 - 11:28
ethan
So ultimately, after negotiations, on behalf of this group, with their employer, with their CEO.

11:29 - 11:33
ethan
He calls me one night at 7 30 and says, Ethan, what number do we have to hit?

11:34 - 11:38
ethan
And Christopher, I just said the dumbest biggest number.

11:38 - 11:40
ethan
I can think that.

11:40 - 11:41
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Crazy number.

11:41 - 11:43
ethan
A crazy number.

11:43 - 11:59
ethan
And so, it ended up working out where we got a seven figure salary raise for that group of doctors, And, on average, there's more, some more than this, I'm less than this, But on average, each of those doctors got a $180,000 salary raise per year.

12:00 - 12:02
ethan
Now, you might say, well, how much does that cost?

12:02 - 12:03
ethan
That's a lot of money.

12:04 - 12:05
ethan
It didn't cost those doctors a dime.

12:06 - 12:17
ethan
Because the employer, I negotiated a $40,000 signing bonus into their contract, and they, the doctors, use less than half of that signing bonus to pay my fee.

12:18 - 12:26
ethan
So, those doctors made almost $200,000 more, and didn't have to pay a dollar to get it because the employer subsidized it.

12:26 - 12:33
ethan
And I think that example perfectly illustrates the distinction between what I do and what an attorney does.

12:34 - 12:40
ethan
An attorney's fee, when to be hourly, it's going to be $500 an hour, $700, now, thousand dollars an hour.

12:41 - 12:47
ethan
And you never know how much it's going to cost, how much work they put into it, how many e-mails that they respond to, if it's nonsensical.

12:48 - 12:52
ethan
For me, my pay is based on one thing and that's the doctor's compensation.

12:53 - 12:56
ethan
If we don't help doctors make more money, we don't get paid.

12:58 - 13:03
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And as I was researching for this show, I know you have a law background in one, I saw you on one of your interviews.

13:03 - 13:08
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And you talked about the four corners that the attorneys look for, and that kind of thing.

13:08 - 13:12
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
But there's a big distinction between just a contract review and what you're doing.

13:12 - 13:14
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And I see that I see value in this.

13:14 - 13:21
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And, and you know, when I work with retirees the bump up, that you can get in pay in one year?

13:21 - 13:23
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I think of it out in the future.

13:23 - 13:26
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
That's the next 30, 40 years, So that's fantastic.

13:26 - 13:27
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Let's talk about that.

13:28 - 13:37
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I want to transition a little bit to retirees here, given your extensive experience in healthcare administration and now with the our MPA.

13:37 - 13:43
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
How do you see the negotiation of physician contracts evolving for doctors who are approaching retirement age?

13:46 - 13:53
ethan
I think those doctors need to be more proactive than potentially doctors earlier in their career.

13:54 - 14:04
ethan
Just by way of example, I have a doctor who was approaching his, what, I believe, to be, as final contract, 63 internal medicine doctor.

14:04 - 14:11
ethan
And when, when I initially did our assessment, I looked at his salary and compensation.

14:12 - 14:14
ethan
And my heart just broke.

14:15 - 14:26
ethan
This doctor who had 30 some odd years in the business and was fiercely loyal to his employer was being paid the same as the rookie doctors.

14:26 - 14:27
ethan
I was negotiating contracts for it.

14:29 - 14:35
ethan
And so, for that doctor, I knew, even though I'm not a financial expert, kristopher, I rely on people like you for that.

14:36 - 14:45
ethan
I knew no matter how much money I make this doctor were not going to make up the ground for the last 30 plus years of not advocating for himself.

14:45 - 14:55
ethan
So, I think that emphasizes and amplifies the importance of doctors who are looking to sign their last deal, or, potentially, their penultimate deal.

14:56 - 15:00
ethan
How are you preparing yourself for the next chapter in your career?

15:01 - 15:09
ethan
I'm working with a doctor right now who's selling her practice and looking for the next owner of the practice to continue its legacy.

15:09 - 15:12
ethan
And so, she's thinking about: How can I?

15:12 - 15:24
ethan
One allow my patients to continue to be cared for beyond my career and secondarily: How can I secure finances to fund my retirement long term?

15:24 - 15:30
ethan
So I think it becomes much more important while it's important for every doctor throughout your career.

15:31 - 15:39
ethan
It becomes even more important to make sure you negotiate that last deal or the penultimate deal, because where else is money going to come from after that?

15:40 - 15:41
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Right?

15:41 - 15:43
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
It's that's your income sources.

15:43 - 15:45
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Basically you're turning off your paycheck at that point.

15:46 - 15:48
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So that's that's a huge thing.

15:48 - 15:49
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
You know, it's interesting.

15:49 - 15:53
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
The story you shared with us about the six women and the practice earlier.

15:55 - 15:55
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Gender.

15:55 - 15:56
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
You know, we're here.

15:56 - 16:04
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
The, the middle, really, of Women's History Month, and I'm seeing that gender might play a role in this.

16:04 - 16:09
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
How has the role of gender unfolded when it comes to paying health?

16:09 - 16:11
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Care workers, doctors, specialists.

16:11 - 16:13
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
What does that look like?

16:14 - 16:18
ethan
I wish I could take credit for this kristopher, but my mom is a doctor.

16:19 - 16:24
ethan
And when I started my firm nearly five years ago, she pointed this out to me.

16:24 - 16:28
ethan
And she said, Ethan, you need to pay special attention to women doctors.

16:28 - 16:33
ethan
There's challenges and experiences we face that go unheard and untreated.

16:34 - 16:35
ethan
And just as a quick example.

16:35 - 16:37
ethan
So the data says, I'll give you the data first.

16:37 - 16:49
ethan
The data says that women generalist, make about $30,000, less, $40,000, less, than their male counterparts, So that's like, 20, 20%, 15%, give or take.

16:49 - 16:49
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Wow.

16:49 - 16:52
ethan
Wow, yeah, it's a big number.

16:52 - 16:59
ethan
On the specialist's side, that number can grow up to about $97,000 on average.

16:59 - 17:01
ethan
So almost six figure difference for the same job.

17:02 - 17:08
ethan
We can certainly delve into all the reasons, the analysis to support that, but for me, it doesn't matter, We seem to fix it.

17:08 - 17:09
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Right?

17:09 - 17:10
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Right.

17:11 - 17:18
ethan
I got a call from a doctor in New York, two weeks ago, and she was in tears.

17:18 - 17:22
ethan
And she said, Ethan, I signed a contract over a year ago.

17:24 - 17:41
ethan
Aye, was approached by my employer, so I'll give you the numbers, the starting salary that she was starting out with $230,000, the employer approached her and said, We're going to change your guarantee to 120,000, but we're going to supplement that with a volume bonus.

17:41 - 17:46
ethan
So if you're busier, you'll make a bunch more money, you'll make way more than 20 or 30,000 were paying you, but you're gonna earn it.

17:47 - 17:48
ethan
She says, OK.

17:49 - 18:01
ethan
Turns out that volume bowness never materialized so that doctor, Christopher, and you can appreciate the impact of this financially, that doctor took a $110,000 pay cut.

18:02 - 18:02
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Well, I don't.

18:02 - 18:02
ethan
Care.

18:03 - 18:05
ethan
If you make 900,000, I don't care if you make 500.

18:06 - 18:10
ethan
If you get your pay cut in half, you feel that.

18:11 - 18:16
ethan
So this doctor calls me and says, they've now presented me with another contract, at 200.

18:17 - 18:25
ethan
I said, Well, that's still 30,000 a rookie deal or you worse now as an experience document with ..., Of course, not.

18:25 - 18:38
ethan
So, this doctor has effectively negotiated a $140,000 pay cut over the last year and a half, and she called me and said, I don't, I don't know what to do.

18:39 - 18:41
ethan
I don't know how to do better.

18:41 - 18:50
ethan
I've I don't know what my options are And I think that is the experience of more doctors than we allow ourselves to acknowledge.

18:50 - 18:51
ethan
They're burned out.

18:51 - 18:55
ethan
They're overworked, underappreciated, and underpaid.

18:56 - 19:02
ethan
And Christopher, here's the thing, we always make our doctors more money, but doctors never call me about that.

19:03 - 19:03
ethan
They.

19:03 - 19:03
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Call me.

19:03 - 19:11
ethan
About clinical support, call schedule, Not having a seat at the table to advocate for their patients and their staff.

19:11 - 19:13
ethan
They never call me about money.

19:13 - 19:19
ethan
It's a nice little side effect that will make them a bunch of it, but they never call us and say, we want more money.

19:20 - 19:23
ethan
Doctors just want to provide care for their patient, That's it.

19:25 - 19:27
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I love it, I love it.

19:27 - 19:44
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Talking a little bit more about, people are doctors, who are healthcare workers who were later in their career, what challenges do physicians face when negotiating contracts later in their careers, and how can they overcome these challenges to secure their financial future?

19:46 - 19:49
ethan
I think it's a problem of mindset.

19:50 - 20:04
ethan
As a hospital executive, I never look critically at a doctor later in their career in terms of bringing them on to our team as a physician, but I have worked with doctors.

20:04 - 20:05
ethan
Pardon me?

20:05 - 20:11
ethan
I have worked with doctors later in their career who have said: I don't know that, I have other options.

20:12 - 20:13
ethan
At this point in my career.

20:13 - 20:16
ethan
I don't know that someone else is going to be willing to take me on.

20:17 - 20:24
ethan
And the reality of it is, is that those doctors self sabotage by not actually going out and exploring their options.

20:25 - 20:29
ethan
Derek Jeter said: Loyalty, one way is stupidity.

20:30 - 20:33
ethan
And I think a lot of times, doctors can be stupid.

20:34 - 20:38
ethan
Doctors can stay with an employer to be loyal.

20:39 - 20:41
ethan
And it's not reciprocated.

20:42 - 20:52
ethan
And so a question I'll ask them is, what has the employer done to actively show you their loyalty to you that you could tangibly touch and demonstrate?

20:53 - 20:54
ethan
Usually it's nothing.

20:54 - 20:56
ethan
Well, they accommodated my schedule.

20:56 - 20:57
ethan
They accommodated this.

20:57 - 20:58
ethan
They accommodated that.

20:59 - 21:02
ethan
Well, that's great, but just know they're underpaying you buy $50,000.

21:02 - 21:03
ethan
Is that worth it to you?

21:05 - 21:06
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Wow, that's a lot.

21:07 - 21:10
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
To just be there and thinking that they're looking out for you.

21:10 - 21:13
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And I'll share this with you.

21:13 - 21:22
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And I don't know if you've heard this before but since I work with state employees, the colleges in Texas are attached to the to the hospitals right.

21:23 - 21:34
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I saw during the pandemic the I do compensation reviews, so if somebody gets offered a voluntary separation, I'll get a second set of eyes on it, right?

21:34 - 21:38
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I'm not an attorney, but I'm looking for things that they might not have on their radar, right?

21:38 - 21:42
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I did some of those over the last 20 years, a handful of them.

21:42 - 21:50
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
But during coville during the pandemic, I saw record numbers of baby boomers that we're getting these voluntary separations.

21:50 - 21:56
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And what they were, know in jeopardy of was losing their, their pension.

21:56 - 22:01
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Because, because they could take this, this kinda, you know, carrot that's there, but it would mess them up.

22:01 - 22:04
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I'm being vested in their pension, so, you know, I'm sharing that.

22:04 - 22:15
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Because the seniors are salary heavy, you know, and so as they're looking to cut the fat, You know, if they're looking to do that, this is something that they often have to look out for.

22:15 - 22:17
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
All right, I'm going to pivot because I shared that.

22:17 - 22:21
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
But I'm gonna pivot here and I'm gonna, we've got about just about five more minutes.

22:21 - 22:25
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And I was listening to, you know, one of the interviews that you had done.

22:25 - 22:35
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And I got the feeling that if somebody was interested in working with you, that it wasn't necessarily always the case that they would have to leave their current employer.

22:35 - 22:37
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
They might, but didn't.

22:37 - 22:45
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
There are situations where they stayed and you mentioned the team earlier that they had a really good cohesion, They like working together, can you speak to that?

22:45 - 22:48
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And I'm gonna say keep it concise, because we've got five minutes, but speak to that.

22:48 - 22:49
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
For me.

22:49 - 22:56
ethan
Our goal is for every doctor to stay with their employer and get paid what they deserve, right, where they are.

22:57 - 23:03
ethan
Doctors must be willing to stand up and advocate for themselves, potentially locking arms with their partners.

23:04 - 23:15
ethan
But we want doctors to stay, where you are, with the resources, you need, the schedule that honors your lifestyle and your values and pay that is competitive for your market and specialty.

23:16 - 23:25
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Wow, OK, so that's, I think that's good news for them because it's, you know, you did mention that they'll, they'll get these grooves with the team that they're working for.

23:25 - 23:27
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And they don't necessarily want to disrupt that.

23:27 - 23:32
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
But on the other hand, they don't want to get stuck, You know, being taking advantage of it.

23:32 - 23:34
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Now, nobody likes that.

23:34 - 23:35
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And you don't know what you don't know.

23:35 - 23:39
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Until you get the data behind what people are being paid currently.

23:39 - 23:47
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And that happens in any career, really, you know, you'll do something for 20, 30 years and you look back and the, the incomes just gone up there.

23:47 - 23:56
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So having somebody like yourself to go in there and telling people what they're worth, seems like a really good thing to a conversation.

23:56 - 23:57
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
To bring here.

23:57 - 24:00
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
In the last you know, few minutes that we have, on the show.

24:00 - 24:05
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
What am, I forgot to ask you that you'd like to let doctors healthcare workers know.

24:07 - 24:10
ethan
I think your questions were phenomenal.

24:10 - 24:19
ethan
The plug that I often like to leave for doctors is you don't need to wait until your contract is up to renegotiate.

24:20 - 24:24
ethan
In fact, if you wait until your contract is up, your employer is going to take advantage of you.

24:25 - 24:29
ethan
You must renegotiate your contract right now.

24:30 - 24:35
ethan
If you wait, your employer is going to use that timeline to what I call, slow play you.

24:36 - 24:41
ethan
Well, we've got approvals, and has gotta go to legal, and we're never gonna get that done by the expiration date.

24:41 - 24:45
ethan
Doctors can, and you must, renegotiate now.

24:45 - 24:53
ethan
And if your employer's not willing to honor what you need to provide the best care for your patients, maybe it's time for you to go to grow.

24:55 - 24:56
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Love it.

24:56 - 25:00
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I love it, time, it artificial time constraint is always a thing for negotiation, right?

25:01 - 25:11
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
They'll put this out there and you're waiting in your weight, and then you know, it's just be, so so the reverse of that, the idea that there's no better time than now, if not now, then when?

25:11 - 25:11
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Right.

25:11 - 25:13
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
So, fantastic.

25:13 - 25:15
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Ethan, thank you so much for being on the show today.

25:16 - 25:22
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
For listeners who'd like to find out more about you, where's the best place for them to get more information.

25:23 - 25:27
ethan
The two best places are on our Instagram physician agency.

25:27 - 25:31
ethan
And we just launched our YouTube channel, the doctor's agent.

25:32 - 25:41
ethan
So we have a ton of resources and educational resources for doctors to prepare themselves for success in their contract negotiations.

25:41 - 25:44
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
I love it, so if you're driving right now, you don't have to stop.

25:44 - 25:46
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
We'll have that in the podcast notes, as well.

25:46 - 25:53
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And then, on our YouTube channel, we have a link for, for partner YouTube channels, people who've been on the show.

25:53 - 25:59
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
And so, we'll put that in our featured YouTube, as well there, Ethan, Thank you so much.

25:59 - 26:01
Christopher Hensley, RICP®
Have a great rest of the day there.

26:02 - 26:03
ethan
Yeah, it's been a delight, Christopher.

26:03 - 26:03
ethan
Thank you.