Money Matters 323- Avoiding Financial Pitfalls for New Widows W/ Alexandra Armstrong and Mary Donahue

Money Matters 323

Chris: [00:00:00] What are some of the most common financial mistakes that new widows make and how can they avoid them?

Alexandra Armstrong: Well, the most, there are several, but as I said, I'm making irrevocable decisions. I think that the problem again is psychological effect of your financial. Your husband died and you were, you couldn't control that.

So you want to prove that you're in control. So you prove it by Oh, I'm going to go take a trip or I'm going to spend a lot of money. I wanted a new car. .

Chris: Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that guides you through the complexities of financial management. I'm your host, Chris Hensley. And today we have a very special episode featuring the renowned authors, Alexandra Armstrong and Mary Donahue. They're here to discuss their groundbreaking breaking book on your own, a widow's guide to emotional and financial well being.

Have you ever wondered how to rebuild your life after a significant loss, both emotionally and financially? Our [00:01:00] guests today have dedicated their careers to answering this very question. Alexandra and Mary bring not only their professional expertise, but also their personal experiences that resonate They'll be sharing the latest insights from their sixth edition, including new financial planning technologies and heartfelt stories that you won't want to miss.

Stay with us to the very end as Alexandra and Mary reveal critical advice for widows from avoiding the common financial pitfalls to leveraging support networks effectively. This episode is packed with valuable information that could change your financial future. So let's dive right in. Alexandra and Mary, welcome to the show.

Yeah, I'm super excited to have you here. I'm gonna hold up. Uh, where's my copy of it? The copy of your book on your own. Uh, this is the widow's guide to emotional and financial well being. Um, I didn't mean to do this, but here we are. at the end of May. [00:02:00] Um, and I've done about three or four episodes on estate planning somehow related to death.

So that wasn't on purpose. But, but here we are. And so this is a nice compliment to some of the recent shows that I've had on estate planning there. So I want to just get right into it and ask you what motivated you to write the first edition of on your own a widow's guide to emotional and financial well being back in 1993.

Alexandra Armstrong: Well, I started it. I'm a financial planner and I had clients who were, and I'm sure you do too, and clients came in and they were recently widowed and the information went in one ear and went out the other. And I thought if I could write something that they could read chapter by chapter at their own pace, that that would be a help.

And then I thought now wait, we just have plenty of books on just financial and that's really important But financial and psychological impact of widowhood. There really wasn't a book that [00:03:00] combined the two So I asked my client Friend and widow who is a psychologist Mary Donahue if she can help me out.

So Mary I'll take it from

Mary Donahue: there. Well, my part in this is that I was suddenly widowed with and no warning and my husband and I had selected Alex as a financial planner, but He did the bulk of the work and worked to get me involved. And I always said, Oh, another day, honey, we really need to do this. And then he suddenly died and I was left not knowing very much at all about my financial situation.

And so, uh, Alex knew a great deal more. And so I turned to Alex, uh, to get more information, but I really. Gave her a hard time in the beginning because I was very tentative. I didn't know what I wanted to do. Did my father think this? Did my husband think that? So she gave me a very [00:04:00] schoolmarm lecture one day and told me to shape up.

And so I attempted to do just that. Which led to my wanting to share my story with other widows. So hopefully they will not be in the same situation that I was in.

Chris: I love it. I love it. I mean, what a great, I would say, marriage of two different, uh, you know, you having experienced that real life real time and then Alex having had the experience of dealing with, with widows before from the financial perspective side of it.

Um, and, and Alex, um, you shared with us the idea that there really wasn't something like this out there yet. Uh, when you first wrote this book, the idea, uh, Um, you know, there are some basic principles that we know, but there wasn't really something that you could just hand to a person when, when stuff happens.

Um, and when this stuff happens, death, right? That's a euphemism, right? When people die, uh, to, to, to have something to give to them. So that, that is, I love [00:05:00] the concept because this is an area Alex, you shared with us that. You know, when people came to your office, sometimes this was the last thing that they were thinking about, or it was hard to talk to him about.

They're kind of all over the place, right? And so, so having, um, something there. Now, I want to fast forward a little bit or a lot because, because, you know, that was back in 1993 and you are on the sixth edition of this book. Now, how has the financial advice for widows evolved from that first edition?

Alexandra Armstrong: Well, some of it hasn't changed much, you know, the big adage about don't make any irrevocable decisions.

Don't pay off the mortgage. Don't buy life insurance and annuities, whatever. A lot of that has has not changed, but what has changed is, is, is. Is the grieving process and of course the investment and tax situation, but, uh, but Mary's part is, is really a part that [00:06:00] historically, and I'm going to ask Mary to talk about this theory.

I know you're focused on the financial, but we, our whole underlying message is get your financial house in order, and then when you become a widow, or if you become a widow, you can deal with the grieving process. Mary, talk about what's changed in the grieving, um, theory, idea.

Mary Donahue: Well, for, for many, many years, we had really, Views about, uh, loss, um, Elizabeth Kubler Ross, uh, with the phases of mourning, and then there was also the tasks of mourning, and that stayed pretty much the same throughout the years, until recently, when a good bit more research has been done, uh, particularly in Australia, that allowed people to recognize that all death is not equal.

Um, Therefore, reactions are not all equal. So for someone that has lost a husband after a long [00:07:00] illness, um, and prolonged agony on both sides versus sudden loss are two entirely different situations. And Recovering is, is really not the same. Also, we have learned that recovery is not linear. You do not have to go from one phase to the next and get into the next phase and then graduate from that.

But it takes each woman her own time and her own self discipline. to mourn in terms of what is going to work for her.

Chris: I love that. I love that. I remember I had a friend of mine pass when I was in my early twenties and the, um, uh, Kubler Ross book on death and dying, that was what was out. Uh, and so I, I, I didn't know that that had, had, um, evolved really.

Um, and what you're talking about here, the idea of not all loss is equal. The idea that sudden loss. is ways different and that [00:08:00] recovery is not linear. It's always going to be on a different timeline per person. That that whole process of grieving or grieving theory has evolved and changed since the beginning of the book to now.

And then, Alex, you started with just the on the financial side, just the idea of getting your house in order, being in a spot where you can address This stuff. Uh, this stuff again, death, right? Let me say it again. Let me get that word out. So addressing death as that comes, it comes online. And as we have our, our, our loved ones and our family members pass, uh, making sure that you get your, your financial house in order at the start there.

Um, Let me, let me ask you about your personal experiences that influenced these new updates and additions in this edition, especially, um, considering Alex's recent experience of widowhood.

Alexandra Armstrong: Well, as I said, in the beginning of this book, I'd [00:09:00] written five editions with Mary advising people, and then I was a widow.

And of course, that gave me a different perspective. And, and part of it was what Mary said, my husband had been ill for a while. So I had some getting used to the idea that made me realize the difference, but it also made us, uh, we knew before, but it's not that all widows are not the same. Obviously, somebody who is widowed in their forties is going to react differently than somebody who reacts in their seventies or eighties.

Uh, when you know, One of you is probably going to die before the other so that there's a difference of reaction, which is why we did the one of the things that we did was different in this book is we leave the stories of four widows at different stages in their lives and different circumstances and different geographic locations.

For instance, one is a second first marriage for her a second marriage for him dealing with the [00:10:00] steps and dealing with their mother in this. In a retirement community, and which makes the point, you don't don't do it in a vacuum that you may be dealing with other sources of loss. Some other issues that require your attention at the same time.

And it's not you can't just sit in a corner and agree. If you've got. You've got to go on with your life and other things. So that's one of the things, which is another thing that makes our book different. You're like reading a novel at the same time you're reading a how to book. So your eyes don't glaze over and we have found, not to be sexist, but women relate more to stories and understanding it better.

Mary Donahue: Well, I want to add to what Alex just said by saying that we, we had these, uh, four hypothetical women in the first book, and we also carried them through all the others, including the six. What's different is the world has changed a great deal since we wrote [00:11:00] the first book. And so, for example, back in the day, there was no such thing as the internet, uh, computers and other things that, um, people take for granted and have to deal with today.

So in the format of the book, as Alex suggested, we have four widows, one in their forties, fifties, sixties, and seventies. And the storylines that we have attached to these women represent what a woman in that decade would be most likely to to have to deal with, um, at when she became a widow. So we, and we have been told by many, many people that it's a dry subject.

The math is sorry, Alex, but the stories do help it come alive.

Chris: I love it. I think that is the, uh, very, uh, good way to approach this topic. Uh, in my own practice, I work with clients 55 and up. And so a lot of times when I'm working with them, they [00:12:00] might have been divorced prior, uh, and blended families. And there may be some mistrust with finances if they got burned in their first marriage or something like that.

So these, these real life stories and situations that you're providing by, uh, by, by illustrating these with the, four different ladies that have four different situations and a lot of the topics kind of bubbling up through 40 50 60 or 70 whatever that generational band is. I think that's a great way to come at that topic because everybody's situation is going to be unique and different.

What are some of the most common financial mistakes that new widows make and how can they avoid them?

Alexandra Armstrong: Well, the most there's several, but as I said, I'm making irrevocable decisions. I think that the problem again is psychological effect of your financial. Your husband died and you were, you couldn't control that.

So you want to prove that you're in control. So you prove it by. [00:13:00] Oh, I'm gonna go take a trip or I'm going to spend a lot of money. I wanted a new car. I want and you really can't do stuff like that until you look at your total situation. So the biggest mistake is rushing into irrevocable decisions. And you know that old adage about don't do anything you can't change in the first year really is true.

Now, sometimes you don't have a choice. I mean if you have an expensive house and you can't afford it anymore So I guess the best piece of advice and I know you'll identify with this is go seek some professional advice Because that's the other thing you've got well meaning friends and family telling you giving you advice But they really don't know your particular circumstances And what you need is somebody Who has done been there, done that with other people and can give you some objective advice, not they, your, your family's being well being.

Sometimes you have adult children and say, Oh mom, I'll take over. And you say, Oh, okay. Well, that's not the best advice. [00:14:00]

Chris: I love it. I love it. That is a, I will definitely piggyback off of that and say, yes, I agree. The idea of not making those. Irrevocable decisions right away. Uh, you know, a biggie that making those large purchases going out and getting a boat or an RV or taking this big trip, something that, that, you know, has a pri a big price tag on it, uh, putting some time between that, um, making a big decision like that.

Lot of, uh, of power in doing that for sure. And then the second thing that you talked about was seeking professional advice. Human beings have a hard time asking for help, right? But this is one of those times that get, you know, nodding or, or, or, or hitting the shoulder of somebody tapping an expert or professional there really, really helps.

Uh, and, um, with your, tell us a little bit about your profession as well. Um, because that has shaped the way that you've, you've come at this topic as well.

Mary Donahue: Oh, I [00:15:00] wouldn't say it's the proof. I mean, my profession, I, you know, I am a psychologist and there's meant, you know, there are many, many aspects in psychology, but as far as the grief goes, we have learned a lot.

Um, and really, if you're dealing with somebody who is really experiencing loss and grief, we try to go with where they are. And move forward. And one of the messages in our book is that by having the security of understanding where you are financially helps the mourning process. It doesn't take it away, but it helps it because it enables you to have some sense of grounding.

Where am I? Where am I going? How am I going to survive? So while you're in all this emotional turmoil, if you get a better handle on where you are financially, Then it allows you to move forward in a better way.

Chris: That makes a lot of sense. I, I, that's, that's one of the things that attracted me to [00:16:00] the book on your own, the idea that, you know, it's coming at it from two different angles.

So the finances are important, but the grieving process, you know, when we talk about the grieving process, I think about, you know, people having, um, a support network, how important is the role of community and support networks in the financial and emotional recovery process for widows? I

Alexandra Armstrong: think it depends.

Individual.

Chris: Well,

Alexandra Armstrong: I'm sorry Mary, that's sort of your department. Go ahead, go ahead. Some people well that's okay. out there. Um, some people there, church groups, synagogue, you know, groups of single, uh, older people does. Some people find great, uh, comfort there. Um, other people will sort of wanna do it on their own, but Mary, I should defer to you on this one.

Go on.

Mary Donahue: Well, that's okay, , we've done this a lot Anyway, anyway. Um. It's a huge variable because community is important, but it also [00:17:00] depends on the individual. Um, and as Alex started to say, people mourn in different ways. Some people seek a great deal of support and find it comforting and others would rather read, philosophize, you know, spend time alone.

So it really depends on the individual. I would say the key thing there is if you have somebody that is supportive, stuck at a particular level, that would be of concern. And then one should seek the help that is out there, because there are many therapists that really are working primarily in the grief area, as well as groups.

And you can find that online in Today's World, which is very important. Um, and I have a friend, for example, that I know, uh, has gotten a great deal. She's a psychologist, and she's gotten a great deal out of her widow support group.

Chris: I love it. I love it. So two different types of [00:18:00] people there. One that, um, the group aspect, uh, Alexandra shared with us the idea of Church groups or your synagogue or even a group therapy or group support.

But then there's people who would be more inclined to do something individual and just raising their hand and getting help through a therapist or somebody who's, who's, who's, uh, that's their profession. They're good at that. Right. And that's exactly why you would tap, tap them and bring them in. Um, let's talk a little bit about the idea of, it's kind of worst case scenario, but.

If you have, you know, both grieving and you have what we call financial recovery, right? Maybe you have a bad financial situation that bubbles up during this, you know, kind of Murphy's law, the worst possible time that it could. How do you deal or what kind of advice do you have for widows who are dealing with both grief and financial recovery simultaneously?

Mary Donahue: Well, one, I want to say they need to know it's [00:19:00] okay to seek help. Uh, for whatever it is, and that they haven't done anything wrong if they, if they ask for help, and we don't want them to do anything immediately. We want them to take the time to understand where they are in order to go forward. The other thing is hope.

You know, in this book, the way we have it written, we want them to understand, they have the ability to understand where they are financially, whether or not they have done it in the past. The fact that you have never been involved with making the investments or even paying the bills doesn't preclude your ability to do so.

And that with whatever support you need that can be provided, you are going to move forward. You can take your time getting there, but you will get there and control your own finances. Listen, not everyone has enough money, but knowing Where you are is a super important [00:20:00] first step.

Alexandra Armstrong: Another topic, Chris, that we haven't talked about is the Internet.

Um, I think sometimes, uh, and again, this is where our book is, is, is, I think some people, you know, we look up the medicine, what's wrong with us, everything on the Internet. Well, as you and I both know and Mary knows as well, you, your financial answers aren't always answered on the internet. Advice on the internet is not.

And one of the topics that we do talk about, not, not in depth, but we talk about it is, as we all know, fraud. We worry about being taken advantage of. The widow is, is, Looking for help. She's looking for a surrogate husband. She's looking for and she can be taken advantage of. And so I, there are so many warnings out there about it, but still people I saw an episode on CBS about a month ago.

I know if you saw about the widow was a hospital administrator and. They, she was conned for a [00:21:00] million and a half out of her savings, and she was too embarrassed to admit that she had done it, which, of course, is part of it. So that's one thing that we, we say, you know, uh, in fact, I have a good friend who, who found a good companion on the Internet.

But we interviewed her and we said, what do you need to do to make sure you find the right person, not the wrong person? And she helped us out. And we introduced that in one of the widows. So, you know, that's something to watch out for to the Internet can be a friend, but also your enemy.

Chris: Absolutely. We are bumping right here towards the end of the show, but that was a lot to unpack here.

So, cause that was a lot of really good, helpful information for people. Uh, so, you know, let's work backwards here. So we talked a little bit about financial fraud and the idea that widows are out there looking for help, but we know that a good bit of financial fraud focuses on Elderly, sometimes it's family members, and now they're getting very, very complex with AI and technology and all that it.

You also mentioned the idea that when this stuff happens to people, they're [00:22:00] embarrassed, right? They're embarrassed to kind of admit that it happens. And so. You know, that's part of the problem is being able to be comfortable with telling you, like, kind of raising your hand and fessing up that this has happened.

But that all started with what you brought up, Alex, was the Internet, right? So, so the idea of people looking to the Internet for advice, financial advice that you know that there there are other avenues and you got to kind of take some of that with a grain of salt for sure. Um, and then, you know, Mary, you mentioned that it's okay to see people.

Help for people to know that there's hope there and in really understanding where you're at. I mean, I can't tell you how many stories I've had where people, uh, couples, one person in the couple feels like they're the financial, uh, person and then the person passes and they've left that person with no, no idea of what's going on with the finances and they didn't mean to do that.

They were doing it. out of the love of their heart. They thought they were saving that person time, but it really put them in a predicament. Uh, so I would, I feel like we could keep going on [00:23:00] forever here, but we're right here at the end of the show. I'm going to show you want

Mary Donahue: to add. Yeah, I'm going to add one thing we haven't said before we have to go.

So anyway, I do think it's important, although this book has focused on widows, we really want to say It has a great deal for others, particularly younger. People that have read the book, that have been widows, have very frequently said to us, You know, I'm giving this book to my daughter, to my son, to my sister, because the information is so valuable.

And that is really a part of the message because if you do this stuff before, if you get into the act and learn more about where you are financially before you're widowed, you're in a much better place. So

Alexandra Armstrong: I

Mary Donahue: wanted to

Alexandra Armstrong: turn that in there. The other thing, uh, but I don't want to leave it is there's not only other people, but divorcees, even though we didn't write it for divorcees, it definitely applies.

And so, uh, we wrote it specifically for widows, but we've had several. people and single women. I have a friend who's in the [00:24:00] financial field. Uh, she said, you know, I learned a lot from reading it. So it is a book for all women. We decided to focus it on widow, but I think any woman would benefit from it. In fact, I just got a letter from a woman.

Uh, thanking me for saying send me the book. She's a recent widow and she said thank you for writing a book for me And I love it. Oh wonderful I

Chris: love it. So you they're giving it to a parent or a family member and they thumb through and they're like, wait a second This this applies to me. So you younger people divorcee single women really Uh a lot of information that can be helpful For many.

So again, the book is on your own. We are on the sixth edition now. Uh, Alex and Mary, the last few minutes of the show, is there anything I forgot to ask you that you'd like to share with listeners today?

Alexandra Armstrong: Well, this is not as universal, but when you said things to avoid one, I thought of one other thing.

Don't loan. Don't loan money till you know your [00:25:00] circumstances. You know, your family may come to you and say, Oh, I need this. I need that. And you need to say, I mean, I don't know my situation yet. Let's wait a while before we do it. So that's the other word of caution I have for a recent widow. I love that.

Alex, thank you. Go ahead, Mary.

Mary Donahue: I just feel I would want every widow to come from, come out of this reading, knowing that there is hope. For her in the future, um, and she needs to take her time, but she will get there

Chris: I love it. What a great place to end the show today. Thank you both for being on the show Have a good rest of the day there.

Mary Donahue: Thank you.